Those poor people in the video! It's like someone vacuuming in your house 24/7. As a resident of Pebble Creek, I'm very concerned.
CS City Council Place 5 - Data Center Update
105,810 Views |
933 Replies |
Last: 8 days ago by Hornbeck
couple of quick fleeting thoughts here
#1 -CSU is a consumer not a provider, they buy all of their power from BTU, there are no generating stations for CSU, no power plants etc, so will BTU have to buy into this for it to work and the added cost to build and provide power to the DC will be on whom?
#2 -CS NIMBY's chased off the Amazon drones, you think they are going to like the sound of 200mw of generators exercising daily? Most larger DC's have (qty 16-20) 12.5k volt gensets for redundancy and back up, you ever hear the gentle purr of 20 12,460v generators all exercising at once? It will rock you to sleep for sure
#1 -CSU is a consumer not a provider, they buy all of their power from BTU, there are no generating stations for CSU, no power plants etc, so will BTU have to buy into this for it to work and the added cost to build and provide power to the DC will be on whom?
#2 -CS NIMBY's chased off the Amazon drones, you think they are going to like the sound of 200mw of generators exercising daily? Most larger DC's have (qty 16-20) 12.5k volt gensets for redundancy and back up, you ever hear the gentle purr of 20 12,460v generators all exercising at once? It will rock you to sleep for sure
EliteElectric said:
couple of quick fleeting thoughts here
#1 -CSU is a consumer not a provider, they buy all of their power from BTU, there are no generating stations for CSU, no power plants etc, so will BTU have to buy into this for it to work and the added cost to build and provide power to the DC will be on whom?
#2 -CS NIMBY's chased off the Amazon drones, you think they are going to like the sound of 200mw of generators exercising daily? Most larger DC's have (qty 16-20) 12.5k volt gensets for redundancy and back up, you ever hear the gentle purr of 20 12,460v generators all exercising at once? It will rock you to sleep for sure
#1: Yes and no, they do not produce power but are still a provider. A lot of providers don't own their own generation. And with the deregulated market, you don't have to be directly connected to your generation source. That's how we have "Wind Watts", or whatever they call it. CSU buys capacity from a wind farm outside of Abilene. It's more or less like buying credits. We don't currently buy all of our power from BTU, and CSU can absolutely go other places for power. The bigger issue is the import paths from the rest of the grid to BCS. A big part of the problem is our location within ERCOT; we're almost on an island over here. For instance, the Entergy transmission line that runs through town is on a totally different grid and is not connected to us at all (outside of one emergency interconnection at the switchyard behind At Home). We need a 345 path that's not coming from the TMPA system, but there's really not a great option in any direction. The closest thing to the west is Oncor's Sandow Switch at the old Alcoa plant, but I'm sure all the data centers out there are bleeding it dry.
This was specific to RELLIS load, but gives a good idea of the current state of the local grid, if anyone is interested. It proposes a line from Twin Oaks Power Station/TNP One Switch in Bremond, which has a direct tie to Oncor Bell East, which will have 765kV coming into it from West Texas at some point in the future.
https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2025/03/14/BTU-TAMUS-RELLIS-Project-Overview-for-RPG3.18.25.pdf
https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2025/03/14/BTU-TAMUS-RELLIS-Project-Overview-for-RPG3.18.25.pdf
ElephantRider said:
This was specific to RELLIS load, but gives a good idea of the current state of the local grid, if anyone is interested. It proposes a line from Twin Oaks Power Station/TNP One Switch in Bremond, which has a direct tie to Oncor Bell East, which will have 765kV coming into it from West Texas at some point in the future.
https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2025/03/14/BTU-TAMUS-RELLIS-Project-Overview-for-RPG3.18.25.pdf
Thank you, I was wondering exactly this - how much power is the data center at Rellis expected to need? Questions:
1) Did this analysis take into account the second proposed data center at Rellis, which is at least four times the square footage of one currently under construction, and how much more power will it require?
2) How much power would the proposed Midtown DC require?
Looking back at the Pros posted. I don't see any of them as Pros. Most are just statements.
And I don't see the city getting 30 million for property they own as a plus for any of citizens of CS. its not like that money will be returned to the tax payer. That 30 million will be plowed into some other project like a convention center or even to dig more wells for this data center. Which most likely is another losing money project by the city
And I don't see the city getting 30 million for property they own as a plus for any of citizens of CS. its not like that money will be returned to the tax payer. That 30 million will be plowed into some other project like a convention center or even to dig more wells for this data center. Which most likely is another losing money project by the city
Tailgate88 said:ElephantRider said:
This was specific to RELLIS load, but gives a good idea of the current state of the local grid, if anyone is interested. It proposes a line from Twin Oaks Power Station/TNP One Switch in Bremond, which has a direct tie to Oncor Bell East, which will have 765kV coming into it from West Texas at some point in the future.
https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2025/03/14/BTU-TAMUS-RELLIS-Project-Overview-for-RPG3.18.25.pdf
Thank you, I was wondering exactly this - how much power is the data center at Rellis expected to need? Questions:
1) Did this analysis take into account the second proposed data center at Rellis, which is at least four times the square footage of one currently under construction, and how much more power will it require?
2) How much power would the proposed Midtown DC require?
It's from March of this year, so I'm sure it accounted for everything planned at RELLIS.
Your second question could be a wide range, depending on to size/scope of the project.
BQ_90 said:
Looking back at the Pros posted. I don't see any of them as Pros. Most are just statements.
And I don't see the city getting 30 million for property they own as a plus for any of citizens of CS. its not like that money will be returned to the tax payer. That 30 million will be plowed into some other project like a convention center or even to dig more wells for this data center. Which most likely is another losing money project by the city
I'm not sure if they can be trusted with extra money lying around. They'll probably just go buy more space at Post Oak Mall
It's hard to know until they announce what the center is going to be used for overall. If you're interested, the Duke study I posted does a great job looking at the requirements the grid needs to sustain the load draw of the data center explosion across the US.
Right now, what we really have is a middleman really saying "hey, I'd love to build this state-of-the-art restaurant, but we can't tell you what food is going to be cooked here or who's going to cook it. However, it's going to be really good food, trust us."
Right now, what we really have is a middleman really saying "hey, I'd love to build this state-of-the-art restaurant, but we can't tell you what food is going to be cooked here or who's going to cook it. However, it's going to be really good food, trust us."
How loud? If it can be heard from people's homes, then we shouldn't even be having this conversation. It should have already been shot down before it got to this point! Protecting your residents should be priority #1! Not rationalizing why it might be ok, if it only affects some people, and you get enough money. This isnt some students parking on the street type problem. Shame on the council, if you dont protect citizens homes from a real threat.
Where does the water come from?
Where does the water go? Another poster says the water is a closed loop system. Does it ever have to be discharged? Where does that water go? What contaminants are in it? What happens to that water when a major repair is needed? What happens to that water when the company goes out of business? That water has to go somewhere, at some point.
As the owner of property on the Navasota and Brazos rivers, I already see a huge amount of trash that comes out of the B/CS storm drains. And there's a huge amount of contaminants along with it. I realize these things are hard to combat but willfully adding a potential source of pollutants to our rivers, should not be an option.
Where does the water come from?
Where does the water go? Another poster says the water is a closed loop system. Does it ever have to be discharged? Where does that water go? What contaminants are in it? What happens to that water when a major repair is needed? What happens to that water when the company goes out of business? That water has to go somewhere, at some point.
As the owner of property on the Navasota and Brazos rivers, I already see a huge amount of trash that comes out of the B/CS storm drains. And there's a huge amount of contaminants along with it. I realize these things are hard to combat but willfully adding a potential source of pollutants to our rivers, should not be an option.
The "Ready, Fire, Aim" approach has worked so well in the recent past. Let's continue to use that approach. /s
Other examples of this approach:
- Rosemary sewer line
- Northgate tower
- Macy's e-sports arena and monorail station
"You can only negotiate after you enter into an agreement and negotiate in the due diligence phase"… that reminds me of a certain national official telling us that "We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.", speaking about the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).
I'm convinced that the folks in the palace on Texas Avenue will only listen when the pitchfork mob compels them to, so sharpen up your pitchforks, Ags!
ETA: I'm getting tired of having to sharpen my pitchfork.
Other examples of this approach:
- Rosemary sewer line
- Northgate tower
- Macy's e-sports arena and monorail station
"You can only negotiate after you enter into an agreement and negotiate in the due diligence phase"… that reminds me of a certain national official telling us that "We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.", speaking about the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).
I'm convinced that the folks in the palace on Texas Avenue will only listen when the pitchfork mob compels them to, so sharpen up your pitchforks, Ags!
ETA: I'm getting tired of having to sharpen my pitchfork.
A summary of the Duke article posted above! If you're worried about the power this can sort of break it down for you.
The document analyzes the potential for integrating large flexible loads, particularly from data centers, into the US power system to accommodate rising electricity demand while minimizing the need for new capacity expansion.
A New Era of Electricity Demand
The U.S. is experiencing significant load growth driven by increased electricity demand from various sectors, particularly data centers and electrification efforts.
U.S. winter peak load is projected to grow by 21.5% from 694 GW in 2024 to 843 GW by 2034.
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) forecasts 128 GW in peak load growth by 2029, a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 3.0%.
Data centers are expected to contribute significantly, adding up to 65 GW by 2029 and accounting for 44% of U.S. electricity load growth through 2028.
AI workloads are projected to represent 50% to 70% of data center demand by 2030.
Potential for Integration of Flexible Loads
The study assesses the U.S. power system's capacity to integrate new flexible loads with minimal infrastructure expansion.
An estimated 76 GW of new load could be integrated with a 0.25% annual load curtailment rate.
At a 0.5% curtailment rate, 98 GW could be integrated, and 126 GW at a 1.0% rate.
Nearly 90% of curtailment hours would require less than 50% reduction of new load.
The five balancing authorities with the largest potential for load integration at 0.5% curtailment are PJM (18 GW), MISO (15 GW), ERCOT (10 GW), SPP (10 GW), and Southern Company (8 GW).
Load Flexibility and Interconnection Challenges
Load flexibility can help mitigate interconnection delays for large demand loads, which have increased significantly.
Interconnection wait times for new loads can reach 7 to 10 years due to supply chain constraints.
Transformer order lead times have increased to 2-5 years, with costs rising by 80%.
Load flexibility allows new loads to curtail consumption during peak stress periods, potentially deferring the need for infrastructure upgrades.
Flexible load interconnection options are being explored by utilities to expedite grid access.
Economic Benefits of Higher System Utilization
Increasing system utilization can lower costs for ratepayers and reduce the need for new capacity investments.
The U.S. electric power system has a low utilization rate, with significant underutilization of generation and transmission infrastructure.
Flexible loads can help improve overall system utilization, lowering per-unit electricity costs.
Inflexible loads that increase peak demand can lead to substantial additional capacity needs and costs.
Regulatory measures are being implemented to ensure large loads do not shift costs to general customers.
Demand Response and Data Center Participation
Demand response programs can provide grid services but have seen low participation from data centers due to operational challenges.
Demand response capacity in RTO/ISO programs is 33 GW, with participation rates varying significantly across regions.
Data centers have historically low participation in demand response due to service-level agreements and operational priorities.
Economic incentives for demand response participation have been modest, making it unattractive for many operators.
Existing demand response programs may not align well with the operational realities of modern data centers, requiring tailored approaches.
Rethinking Data Centers with AI-Driven Flexibility
The integration of AI technologies in data centers is creating new opportunities for operational flexibility and demand response.
Limited documentation has led to a perception of data centers as inflexible loads.
Recent developments in computational load profiles and operational capabilities suggest a shift towards flexibility.
The SEAB recommends prioritizing initiatives to characterize and advance data center load flexibility.
EPRI's DCFlex Initiative aims to demonstrate the potential of data center operational flexibility through partnerships with tech companies and utilities.
AI-specialized data centers can defer workloads, allowing for strategic scheduling and improved load flexibility.
Temporal and Spatial Flexibility in Data Centers
Data centers are increasingly adopting temporal and spatial flexibility to optimize energy consumption and operational efficiency.
Temporal flexibility allows for the deferral of non-urgent tasks, enabling better load management.
Spatial flexibility involves distributing workloads across multiple data centers to respond to electricity supply conditions.
EPRI reports that optimizing computation can lead to cost savings of up to 15% by capitalizing on lower electric rates during off-peak hours.
Google has developed a temporal workload shifting system and is exploring spatial flexibility.
Methods for Load Reduction in Data Centers
Various methods are being implemented to enhance load flexibility in data centers, including dynamic voltage scaling and server optimization.
Dynamic voltage and frequency scaling reduces power consumption by lowering voltage or frequency.
Server optimization consolidates workloads onto fewer servers, reducing energy waste.
Advances in virtualization enable better management of workloads and energy efficiency.
Temperature flexibility can also be utilized, as cooling systems account for 30% to 40% of data center energy consumption.
Data Centers' Role in Ancillary Services
Data centers have the potential to provide ancillary services to the grid, particularly in frequency regulation.
Data centers can dynamically adjust workloads to support grid stability, acting as "virtual spinning reserves."
This capability allows for near-instantaneous balancing resources, extending beyond traditional demand response.
Market Trends Supporting Load Flexibility
Three key market trends are creating opportunities for load flexibility in data centers.
Constrained supply-side conditions are increasing costs and lead times for large inflexible loads.
Advancements in on-site generation and storage technologies are making cleaner solutions more viable for data centers.
The concentration of computational load in hyper-scale data centers is encouraging operators to adopt flexibility for faster interconnection.
Balancing AI Model Development and Inferencing
The balance between AI model development and inferencing tasks is crucial for future data center load profiles.
Training an AI model accounts for 30% of its annual energy footprint, while inferencing accounts for 60%.
A shift towards more inferencing tasks could impact the flexibility and predictability of data center loads.
Private Sector Initiatives for Data Center Flexibility
Most advancements in data center flexibility are currently driven by voluntary private-sector initiatives.
Some hyperscalers are prioritizing near-term solutions for load flexibility to mitigate grid constraints.
Companies like Verrus are establishing business models around flexible data center operations.
Estimating Curtailment-Enabled Headroom
The analysis estimates the gigawatts of new load that can be added to the US power system while applying load curtailment.
The study investigates load factors and curtailment-enabled headroom across 22 balancing authorities.
Headroom ranges from 76 to 215 GW, depending on curtailment limits (0.25% to 5.0%).
The average required load curtailment hours varies significantly, with most hours retaining at least 50% of the new load.
Seasonal Concentration of Curtailment
The analysis reveals significant seasonal variation in curtailment hours across balancing authorities.
The winter-summer split of curtailment hours varies widely, with some authorities experiencing heavily concentrated curtailment in one season.
A strong correlation exists between winter load factors and the seasonal allocation of curtailment hours.
Conclusion on Load Flexibility Potential
The study highlights the potential for leveraging load flexibility to address rapid load growth challenges in the US power system.
Existing system capacity can accommodate significant new load additions with modest curtailment.
Balancing authorities with lower seasonal load factors have greater capacity for integrating flexible loads.
Load flexibility can improve system utilization and support decarbonization objectives while mitigating infrastructure expansion needs.
ABBREVIATIONS Used in Power Systems
The document includes a comprehensive list of abbreviations relevant to the assessment of flexible loads in US power systems.
AI: Artificial intelligence
BA: Balancing authority
DERs: Distributed energy resources
EIA: Energy Information Administration
FERC: Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
RTO/ISO: Regional transmission organization/independent system operator
LOLE: Loss of load expectation
CAGR: Compound annual growth rate
Curtailment Analysis by Balancing Authority
The analysis evaluates the relationship between curtailment rates and load additions across various balancing authorities.
Figures A.1 to A.3 illustrate curtailment rates versus load additions for different regions.
Non-RTO Southeastern and Western balancing authorities are specifically analyzed.
The data spans from 2016 to 2024, showing trends in maximum load additions in MW.
Average values are calculated to provide insights into curtailment capabilities.
Data Cleaning Process Overview
The data cleaning process enhances the accuracy of hourly load data across 22 balancing authorities over nine years.
Data normalization ensures uniform date-time formats and consistent demand values.
Outliers are identified and handled through interpolation and replacement with non-outlier values.
Seasonal and annual peak loads are validated against historical data to ensure accuracy.
Logs are maintained to document corrections and outlier handling.
Curtailment Goal-Seek Function Explanation
The mathematical function assesses the impact of load additions on curtailment in power systems.
The function calculates curtailed MWh based on load addition and predefined curtailment limits.
It incorporates hourly demand and seasonal peak thresholds to determine curtailment.
The total annual curtailment is aggregated from hourly data to evaluate the overall impact of load additions.
The document analyzes the potential for integrating large flexible loads, particularly from data centers, into the US power system to accommodate rising electricity demand while minimizing the need for new capacity expansion.
A New Era of Electricity Demand
The U.S. is experiencing significant load growth driven by increased electricity demand from various sectors, particularly data centers and electrification efforts.
U.S. winter peak load is projected to grow by 21.5% from 694 GW in 2024 to 843 GW by 2034.
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) forecasts 128 GW in peak load growth by 2029, a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 3.0%.
Data centers are expected to contribute significantly, adding up to 65 GW by 2029 and accounting for 44% of U.S. electricity load growth through 2028.
AI workloads are projected to represent 50% to 70% of data center demand by 2030.
Potential for Integration of Flexible Loads
The study assesses the U.S. power system's capacity to integrate new flexible loads with minimal infrastructure expansion.
An estimated 76 GW of new load could be integrated with a 0.25% annual load curtailment rate.
At a 0.5% curtailment rate, 98 GW could be integrated, and 126 GW at a 1.0% rate.
Nearly 90% of curtailment hours would require less than 50% reduction of new load.
The five balancing authorities with the largest potential for load integration at 0.5% curtailment are PJM (18 GW), MISO (15 GW), ERCOT (10 GW), SPP (10 GW), and Southern Company (8 GW).
Load Flexibility and Interconnection Challenges
Load flexibility can help mitigate interconnection delays for large demand loads, which have increased significantly.
Interconnection wait times for new loads can reach 7 to 10 years due to supply chain constraints.
Transformer order lead times have increased to 2-5 years, with costs rising by 80%.
Load flexibility allows new loads to curtail consumption during peak stress periods, potentially deferring the need for infrastructure upgrades.
Flexible load interconnection options are being explored by utilities to expedite grid access.
Economic Benefits of Higher System Utilization
Increasing system utilization can lower costs for ratepayers and reduce the need for new capacity investments.
The U.S. electric power system has a low utilization rate, with significant underutilization of generation and transmission infrastructure.
Flexible loads can help improve overall system utilization, lowering per-unit electricity costs.
Inflexible loads that increase peak demand can lead to substantial additional capacity needs and costs.
Regulatory measures are being implemented to ensure large loads do not shift costs to general customers.
Demand Response and Data Center Participation
Demand response programs can provide grid services but have seen low participation from data centers due to operational challenges.
Demand response capacity in RTO/ISO programs is 33 GW, with participation rates varying significantly across regions.
Data centers have historically low participation in demand response due to service-level agreements and operational priorities.
Economic incentives for demand response participation have been modest, making it unattractive for many operators.
Existing demand response programs may not align well with the operational realities of modern data centers, requiring tailored approaches.
Rethinking Data Centers with AI-Driven Flexibility
The integration of AI technologies in data centers is creating new opportunities for operational flexibility and demand response.
Limited documentation has led to a perception of data centers as inflexible loads.
Recent developments in computational load profiles and operational capabilities suggest a shift towards flexibility.
The SEAB recommends prioritizing initiatives to characterize and advance data center load flexibility.
EPRI's DCFlex Initiative aims to demonstrate the potential of data center operational flexibility through partnerships with tech companies and utilities.
AI-specialized data centers can defer workloads, allowing for strategic scheduling and improved load flexibility.
Temporal and Spatial Flexibility in Data Centers
Data centers are increasingly adopting temporal and spatial flexibility to optimize energy consumption and operational efficiency.
Temporal flexibility allows for the deferral of non-urgent tasks, enabling better load management.
Spatial flexibility involves distributing workloads across multiple data centers to respond to electricity supply conditions.
EPRI reports that optimizing computation can lead to cost savings of up to 15% by capitalizing on lower electric rates during off-peak hours.
Google has developed a temporal workload shifting system and is exploring spatial flexibility.
Methods for Load Reduction in Data Centers
Various methods are being implemented to enhance load flexibility in data centers, including dynamic voltage scaling and server optimization.
Dynamic voltage and frequency scaling reduces power consumption by lowering voltage or frequency.
Server optimization consolidates workloads onto fewer servers, reducing energy waste.
Advances in virtualization enable better management of workloads and energy efficiency.
Temperature flexibility can also be utilized, as cooling systems account for 30% to 40% of data center energy consumption.
Data Centers' Role in Ancillary Services
Data centers have the potential to provide ancillary services to the grid, particularly in frequency regulation.
Data centers can dynamically adjust workloads to support grid stability, acting as "virtual spinning reserves."
This capability allows for near-instantaneous balancing resources, extending beyond traditional demand response.
Market Trends Supporting Load Flexibility
Three key market trends are creating opportunities for load flexibility in data centers.
Constrained supply-side conditions are increasing costs and lead times for large inflexible loads.
Advancements in on-site generation and storage technologies are making cleaner solutions more viable for data centers.
The concentration of computational load in hyper-scale data centers is encouraging operators to adopt flexibility for faster interconnection.
Balancing AI Model Development and Inferencing
The balance between AI model development and inferencing tasks is crucial for future data center load profiles.
Training an AI model accounts for 30% of its annual energy footprint, while inferencing accounts for 60%.
A shift towards more inferencing tasks could impact the flexibility and predictability of data center loads.
Private Sector Initiatives for Data Center Flexibility
Most advancements in data center flexibility are currently driven by voluntary private-sector initiatives.
Some hyperscalers are prioritizing near-term solutions for load flexibility to mitigate grid constraints.
Companies like Verrus are establishing business models around flexible data center operations.
Estimating Curtailment-Enabled Headroom
The analysis estimates the gigawatts of new load that can be added to the US power system while applying load curtailment.
The study investigates load factors and curtailment-enabled headroom across 22 balancing authorities.
Headroom ranges from 76 to 215 GW, depending on curtailment limits (0.25% to 5.0%).
The average required load curtailment hours varies significantly, with most hours retaining at least 50% of the new load.
Seasonal Concentration of Curtailment
The analysis reveals significant seasonal variation in curtailment hours across balancing authorities.
The winter-summer split of curtailment hours varies widely, with some authorities experiencing heavily concentrated curtailment in one season.
A strong correlation exists between winter load factors and the seasonal allocation of curtailment hours.
Conclusion on Load Flexibility Potential
The study highlights the potential for leveraging load flexibility to address rapid load growth challenges in the US power system.
Existing system capacity can accommodate significant new load additions with modest curtailment.
Balancing authorities with lower seasonal load factors have greater capacity for integrating flexible loads.
Load flexibility can improve system utilization and support decarbonization objectives while mitigating infrastructure expansion needs.
ABBREVIATIONS Used in Power Systems
The document includes a comprehensive list of abbreviations relevant to the assessment of flexible loads in US power systems.
AI: Artificial intelligence
BA: Balancing authority
DERs: Distributed energy resources
EIA: Energy Information Administration
FERC: Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
RTO/ISO: Regional transmission organization/independent system operator
LOLE: Loss of load expectation
CAGR: Compound annual growth rate
Curtailment Analysis by Balancing Authority
The analysis evaluates the relationship between curtailment rates and load additions across various balancing authorities.
Figures A.1 to A.3 illustrate curtailment rates versus load additions for different regions.
Non-RTO Southeastern and Western balancing authorities are specifically analyzed.
The data spans from 2016 to 2024, showing trends in maximum load additions in MW.
Average values are calculated to provide insights into curtailment capabilities.
Data Cleaning Process Overview
The data cleaning process enhances the accuracy of hourly load data across 22 balancing authorities over nine years.
Data normalization ensures uniform date-time formats and consistent demand values.
Outliers are identified and handled through interpolation and replacement with non-outlier values.
Seasonal and annual peak loads are validated against historical data to ensure accuracy.
Logs are maintained to document corrections and outlier handling.
Curtailment Goal-Seek Function Explanation
The mathematical function assesses the impact of load additions on curtailment in power systems.
The function calculates curtailed MWh based on load addition and predefined curtailment limits.
It incorporates hourly demand and seasonal peak thresholds to determine curtailment.
The total annual curtailment is aggregated from hourly data to evaluate the overall impact of load additions.
ok thats a lot of info.
But the question is how does this impact the average CSU customer. Does anyone believe that this new customer, which will be the largest customer of CSU, will not have priority for power over the rest of us that are nobodies?
This doesn't even address the water issues and the noise the thing will generate.
I guess for me i don't see any benefits as a resident and tax payer of this project. Just a lot of negatives
But the question is how does this impact the average CSU customer. Does anyone believe that this new customer, which will be the largest customer of CSU, will not have priority for power over the rest of us that are nobodies?
This doesn't even address the water issues and the noise the thing will generate.
I guess for me i don't see any benefits as a resident and tax payer of this project. Just a lot of negatives
Hornbeck said:
The "Ready, Fire, Aim" approach has worked so well in the recent past. Let's continue to use that approach. /s
Other examples of this approach:
- Rosemary sewer line
- Northgate tower
- Macy's e-sports arena and monorail station
"You can only negotiate after you enter into an agreement and negotiate in the due diligence phase"… that reminds me of a certain national official telling us that "We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.", speaking about the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).
I'm convinced that the folks in the palace on Texas Avenue will only listen when the pitchfork mob compels them to, so sharpen up your pitchforks, Ags!
ETA: I'm getting tired of having to sharpen my pitchfork.
And the convention center.
Just talking about power, it goes back to the contract. This is truly hard for me to give any type of advising until we know what the delivery plan is. If this is a data center for Meta, it's going to be a completely different power draw than, let's say, Bitcoin.
This item listed as a consent item and not worship brings me some worry. I think it may be a bit reckless when I see how some of these deals have unfolded in other Texas municipalities. This, in my opinion, needs to be dialogued from elected officials and residents. Questions need to be asked, and homework needs to be done.
In no way whatsoever am I trying to be rude or disrespectful, but who is sitting on the council now has a background in these centers? Who has any depth of knowledge on the topic? How have they had the time to do their homework on it in the last couple of weeks when most, not all, are starting at ground zero?
I am happy to advise and even bring in real world experts and not just students who don't have a dollar in the fight, but even if any council person wants to be advised and learned more is 6 days enough time to get up to speed?
This item listed as a consent item and not worship brings me some worry. I think it may be a bit reckless when I see how some of these deals have unfolded in other Texas municipalities. This, in my opinion, needs to be dialogued from elected officials and residents. Questions need to be asked, and homework needs to be done.
In no way whatsoever am I trying to be rude or disrespectful, but who is sitting on the council now has a background in these centers? Who has any depth of knowledge on the topic? How have they had the time to do their homework on it in the last couple of weeks when most, not all, are starting at ground zero?
I am happy to advise and even bring in real world experts and not just students who don't have a dollar in the fight, but even if any council person wants to be advised and learned more is 6 days enough time to get up to speed?
ElephantRider said:EliteElectric said:
couple of quick fleeting thoughts here
#1 -CSU is a consumer not a provider, they buy all of their power from BTU, there are no generating stations for CSU, no power plants etc, so will BTU have to buy into this for it to work and the added cost to build and provide power to the DC will be on whom?
#2 -CS NIMBY's chased off the Amazon drones, you think they are going to like the sound of 200mw of generators exercising daily? Most larger DC's have (qty 16-20) 12.5k volt gensets for redundancy and back up, you ever hear the gentle purr of 20 12,460v generators all exercising at once? It will rock you to sleep for sure
#1: Yes and no, they do not produce power but are still a provider. A lot of providers don't own their own generation. And with the deregulated market, you don't have to be directly connected to your generation source. That's how we have "Wind Watts", or whatever they call it. CSU buys capacity from a wind farm outside of Abilene. It's more or less like buying credits. We don't currently buy all of our power from BTU, and CSU can absolutely go other places for power. The bigger issue is the import paths from the rest of the grid to BCS. A big part of the problem is our location within ERCOT; we're almost on an island over here. For instance, the Entergy transmission line that runs through town is on a totally different grid and is not connected to us at all (outside of one emergency interconnection at the switchyard behind At Home). We need a 345 path that's not coming from the TMPA system, but there's really not a great option in any direction. The closest thing to the west is Oncor's Sandow Switch at the old Alcoa plant, but I'm sure all the data centers out there are bleeding it dry.
Sorry I meant to say producer in lieu of provider. That said they still have to buy the power they would provide the DC, which means they would be dependent on another source of power to procure for that purpose. Who would bear that cost is my question. The ties, substations, transmission and transformers. Who builds and maintains that? CoCS via CSU?
EliteElectric said:ElephantRider said:EliteElectric said:
couple of quick fleeting thoughts here
#1 -CSU is a consumer not a provider, they buy all of their power from BTU, there are no generating stations for CSU, no power plants etc, so will BTU have to buy into this for it to work and the added cost to build and provide power to the DC will be on whom?
#2 -CS NIMBY's chased off the Amazon drones, you think they are going to like the sound of 200mw of generators exercising daily? Most larger DC's have (qty 16-20) 12.5k volt gensets for redundancy and back up, you ever hear the gentle purr of 20 12,460v generators all exercising at once? It will rock you to sleep for sure
#1: Yes and no, they do not produce power but are still a provider. A lot of providers don't own their own generation. And with the deregulated market, you don't have to be directly connected to your generation source. That's how we have "Wind Watts", or whatever they call it. CSU buys capacity from a wind farm outside of Abilene. It's more or less like buying credits. We don't currently buy all of our power from BTU, and CSU can absolutely go other places for power. The bigger issue is the import paths from the rest of the grid to BCS. A big part of the problem is our location within ERCOT; we're almost on an island over here. For instance, the Entergy transmission line that runs through town is on a totally different grid and is not connected to us at all (outside of one emergency interconnection at the switchyard behind At Home). We need a 345 path that's not coming from the TMPA system, but there's really not a great option in any direction. The closest thing to the west is Oncor's Sandow Switch at the old Alcoa plant, but I'm sure all the data centers out there are bleeding it dry.
Sorry I meant to say producer in lieu of provider. That said they still have to buy the power they would provide the DC, which means they would be dependent on another source of power to procure for that purpose. Who would bear that cost is my question. The ties, substations, transmission and transformers. Who builds and maintains that? CoCS via CSU?
The DC will pay the cost for their interconnection. Some of the bigger DC developers (Meta, Amazon, etc.) will sometimes have their own Power Purchase Agreements with a generator. Basically they would be prepaying for power and would just be paying CSU a fee to deliver it. I do not know if that will be the case here, just something that does happen.
You don't inherently need new infrastructure to buy power from new sources; it's all on the grid that we're already connected to. CSU could be buying new power from whoever they want right now, we're just going to be up against transmission constraints sooner rather than later. As far as new transmission lines coming into town to ease those constraints, BTU would most likely pay for that, and then pass a portion of it to CSU through their transmission arrangements. The project that's been proposed by BTU (~40 mile line from Bremond to RELLIS) would be split between BTU and TNMP (Texas-New Mexico Power).
Kind of in the same vein regarding water usage/cost, Wellborn Water recently announced their rate changes over the next year due to new wells (something CS is likely to need) and upgrading infrastructure. Base rate going from $37.50 (no usage) to $57 in Oct. of 2026. Rate per 1,000 gallons is also increasing significantly. Will CS need to institute a similar increase?
Also, when we have another electricity crisis like a few Februarys ago, will a data center get first dibs on power service while citizens get shut down?
Also, when we have another electricity crisis like a few Februarys ago, will a data center get first dibs on power service while citizens get shut down?
4:00, and I haven't seen an agenda on the City's website.
Maybe they are having technical issues?
Edit to add (4:09) - it was just posted. Going to read.
Maybe they are having technical issues?
Edit to add (4:09) - it was just posted. Going to read.
Higher tax collection will never result in lower taxes for me. Therefore, I don't care.
Hornbeck said:
4:00, and I haven't seen an agenda on the City's website.
Maybe they are having technical issues?
I've checked as well and cannot access the link to view current agendas. Something about 'cookies not being enabled for this website.' They're enabled on my end, so I'm not sure what's going on.
9.5 Presentation, discussion, and possible action regarding a real estate contract with Priority Power
Management, LLC for the sale of approximately 200 acres of land in the Midtown Business Park
at the intersection of Midtown Drive and Corporate Parkway in the amount of $150,000 per acre.
The final square footage of the property and the City's remaining property, if any, will be identified
on the approved replat.
Sponsors: Michael Ostrowski
Attachments: 1. PPM Real Estate Contract-City of College Station 09-05-2025
2. Midtown Business Park Subject Property Map
3. Conceptual Site Plan
Management, LLC for the sale of approximately 200 acres of land in the Midtown Business Park
at the intersection of Midtown Drive and Corporate Parkway in the amount of $150,000 per acre.
The final square footage of the property and the City's remaining property, if any, will be identified
on the approved replat.
Sponsors: Michael Ostrowski
Attachments: 1. PPM Real Estate Contract-City of College Station 09-05-2025
2. Midtown Business Park Subject Property Map
3. Conceptual Site Plan
Never worked with them, but I know a few folks at Priority. They will not be building the site, they are a consulting firm and are most likely just representing the owner.
Hornbeck said:
I am assuming this is a bitcoin mining date center... (see below) Then what happens if these guys go belly up, bitcoins are exhausted (it's a thing) or quantum computers make the need for this amount of horsepower obsolete, what happens to the building? Will these guys go bankrupt, and wind up donating it to TAMU for the tax write off? (See the old Texas Instruments facility on Harvey). Then the tax revenue is $0, you don't have a business park, with the opportunity to bring in new jobs, etc.
I live in a neighborhood near here. I am 100% against it.
So what are the answers to these questions from Hornbeck?? Did I completely miss them?
Are our city leaders this naive? What other cities would sell prime real estate right in the middle of town TO A DATA CENTER? Might as well be a nuclear waste site.
99% of the citizens would be against this. If not more.
99% of the citizens would be against this. If not more.
Priority Power's proposal is here https://filebin.net/dxbx0v8dztxdkp7r
Well, there are nuclear reactors in the vicinity so you got that going for Cstat
Farmari Bojuji
BBQ said:
Well, there are nuclear reactors in the vicinity so you got that going for Cstat
They are quiet. And this is the 3rd time you have mentioned the reactors on this thread. What response are you looking for?
Yall can hang this up, the water requirements for a CC unit of any size are huge, not to mention the permitting required, though I'm sure the "contractor" would use state available funds to build the unit. These data centers will be the death of us, and City of College Station HAS NO AUTHORITY TO GUARANTEE ANYTHING WHEN IT COMES TO WHOS POWER GETS TURNED OFF OR WHEN.
Guys this is ridiculous to even dig into or think about when statements like that are made.
Guys this is ridiculous to even dig into or think about when statements like that are made.
If there is a company going to use it, why doesn't the company just purchase the land and build it themselves.
Why does the city need to be involved in the development at all other that zoning changes and perhaps some property tax reductions for a period of time based on employment?
Due to the increase in electricity usage, is our KWH elect cost going to go up for residents?
What jumps out at me is the phrase, "speculative in nature."
Does the council realize that they will be competing with other locations that have not only long-term contracts for electricity way below market, RIOT in Rockdale for example due to the Alcoa shutdown, who can offer tenants a much better cost per KWH than maybe they will get here,
Why does the city need to be involved in the development at all other that zoning changes and perhaps some property tax reductions for a period of time based on employment?
Due to the increase in electricity usage, is our KWH elect cost going to go up for residents?
What jumps out at me is the phrase, "speculative in nature."
Does the council realize that they will be competing with other locations that have not only long-term contracts for electricity way below market, RIOT in Rockdale for example due to the Alcoa shutdown, who can offer tenants a much better cost per KWH than maybe they will get here,
BucketofBalls99 said:Hornbeck said:
I am assuming this is a bitcoin mining date center... (see below) Then what happens if these guys go belly up, bitcoins are exhausted (it's a thing) or quantum computers make the need for this amount of horsepower obsolete, what happens to the building? Will these guys go bankrupt, and wind up donating it to TAMU for the tax write off? (See the old Texas Instruments facility on Harvey). Then the tax revenue is $0, you don't have a business park, with the opportunity to bring in new jobs, etc.
I live in a neighborhood near here. I am 100% against it.
So what are the answers to these questions from Hornbeck?? Did I completely miss them?
Although bitcoins will eventually be all owned, most will be used in business transactions and bitcoin mining companies will still generate income, a small amount, from every crypto transaction that they will be able to handle,
Companies looking to build data centers are looking at mining companies due to their excess electricity capacity at extremely long-term below market rates,
The presence of bitcoins will never be exhausted,
Why is the Rellis data center project shut down?
Why do DCs need to be built in cities. Wouldn't this screw over the citizens and companies who have moved into Midtown? What is CS giving up to entice them? I'm a bit bewildered this is even being considered at this location.
GasAg90 said:
Why do DCs need to be built in cities. Wouldn't this screw over the citizens and companies who have moved into Midtown? What is CS giving up to entice them? I'm a bit bewildered this is even being considered at this location.
Let's ask this. Why do companies want to build a DC in this city? Are we being taken to the cleaners?