*** SUPERMAN: LEGACY ***

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FL_Ag1998
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Gunn's full comments from the Variety click-bait article....

Quote:

"I mean, 'Superman' is the story of America," Gunn explained. "An immigrant that came from other places and populated the country, but for me it is mostly a story that says basic human kindness is a value and is something we have lost."

Gunn acknowledged that the movie's themes may be interpreted differently across political groups, especially considering the current nationwide unrest around immigration. However, Gunn stands by the ideals embedded in "Superman," and added that he doesn't care if anyone takes offense.

"Yes, it plays differently, but it's about human kindness and obviously there will be jerks out there who are just not kind and will take it as offensive just because it is about kindness. But screw them," he said.

He continued, "Yes, it's about politics. But on another level it's about morality. Do you never kill no matter what which is what Superman believes or do you have some balance, as Lois believes? It's really about their relationship and the way different opinions on basic moral beliefs can tear two people apart."



That statement in itself is not inherently wrong, divisive, nor slanted one way or another. He's no doubt on the liberal side of politics personally, but this statement is simply stating the movie depicts how kindness gets pushed to the wayside in polarized politicized environments, like one we're living in now.

And he's correct. While both sides of the aisle are fighting to prove they're correct and fighting against what they perceive as the wrong side, in the process they both have lost some sympathy and kindness for people in general.

Actually, the way he frames the argument presented in the movie sounds like it's going to reflect both sides of the argument. Much like the MCU's Civil War was fundamentally about two opposing sides of a political argument.
20ag07
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I literally do not care where directors lean politically. At all.

But I'm smart enough to realize you don't go to London (where your box office is nil) and talk about how your blockbuster is political, and about "an immigrant" and start stirring sht up in 2025, expecting it to not grab headlines.

Clark's an alien.

You say "this is the ultimate alien story" (which it is) and no one cares.
Lathspell
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TCTTS said:

Celebrating/endorsing kindness and saying "screw you" to those who don't aren't contradictory sentiments.
And this one sentence tells me everything I need to know about you.

Anyone who is truly a kind person or strives to be would know the two points in his statement are contradictory. This is literally the basis of several of Jesus' teachings and is a core tenant of Christianity.

Honestly, that statement encapsulates the entire leftist ideology and justifications for their violent actions. Anyone who would make this statement is not truly a kind person. They are simply virtue signaling without truly committing to the virtue. Sounds like Hollywood, to me.
FL_Ag1998
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20ag07 said:

I literally do not care where directors lean politically. At all.

But I'm smart enough to realize you don't go to London (where your box office is nil) and talk about how your blockbuster is political, and about "an immigrant" and start stirring sht up in 2025, expecting it to not grab headlines.

Clark's an alien.

You say "this is the ultimate alien story" (which it is) and no one cares.


I understand your point. Is Gunn's comment likely to stir up emotions from people who live daily on the edge of their seats looking for stuff to get pissed about? Yes, unfortunately, and it might become a distraction for people looking to stir up crap. For example, notice how Sea Speed stopped by this thread to drop this bomb then quickly disappeared to sit back and watch the fireworks, lol?

But I also think you insisting that Clark should be called an "alien" instead of an immigrant is actually caving into the politization of that word. "Immigrant" isn't a bad word nor a bad thing to be. Even Trump says immigrants aren't bad, just the ones who don't follow our system to become citizens. Its only a politically charged term if you let it be to you.

I personally have no problem wih what the Trump administration and ICE are doing currently. At the same time I choose to interpret Gunn's fairly vague comments as generalizing how we as a nation, as a whole, have politicized the immigrant experience. And in doing so have all lost some of our kindness and sympathy.

Sea Speed
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I can't be the only one that has literally never thought of Superman as an immigrant.
Claude!
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According one one canon, Superman is a natural-born American citizen, with his escape pod being a "birthing matrix" and him not being born until he landed on Earth. So I guess he was an anchor baby for the space dust that is his Kryptonian parents.

You can make a good Superman movie that's political, and I hope that is what Gunn has done. Superman is at his most interesting when he's not just fighting giant robots. I think the concern is that when people hear someone say "_____ is a political movie", they fear it means "I'm going to do some ham-handed preaching in the form of a movie". Again, probably not what Gunn is doing.
FL_Ag1998
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Sea Speed said:

I can't be the only one that has literally never thought of Superman as an immigrant.


Sure, but does he not fit the term "immigrant"?
Sea Speed
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Sure and there are probably a ton of other terms that fit that I don't think of him as. When people think of Superman, I imagine they think alien or superhero, not immigrant. It's technically correct but it's almost like revisionist history to start using it as the primary descriptor IRT his back story.
Aggies76
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FL_Ag1998 said:

Sea Speed said:

I can't be the only one that has literally never thought of Superman as an immigrant.


Sure, but does he not fit the term "immigrant"?


Technically yes. A child immigrant. I think of him more as an adopted orphan.
RikkiTikkaTagem
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FL_Ag1998 said:

Sea Speed said:

I can't be the only one that has literally never thought of Superman as an immigrant.


Sure, but does he not fit the term "immigrant"?


Definitely illegal alien
Cougar11
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man libs ruined another movie was going to see this, now no.

As a kid watching superman never thought oh hes an immigrant so stupid.
FL_Ag1998
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Sea Speed said:

Sure and there are probably a ton of other terms that fit that I don't think of him as. When people think of Superman, I imagine they think alien or superhero, not immigrant. It's technically correct but it's almost like revisionist history to start using it as the primary descriptor IRT his back story.


I get this sentiment.

Being "not from Earth" has always been key to Supes storylines. I guess my point is simply advice rather, which is to not let one word throw you for such a loop that you get worked up and throw a fit on social media ("you" in the general sense here, not you specifically). But I get that for people like Clay Travis, that's part of his gimmick to get clicks.
FL_Ag1998
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Cougar11 said:

man libs ruined another movie was going to see this, now no.

As a kid watching superman never thought oh hes an immigrant so stupid.


Says a guy who has 1 other post on this board but rushed over from F16 to let us know he's definitely not going to see this now.
agracer
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TCTTS said:

Again, Superman-as-an-immigrant (specifically hinging on the word "immigrant") has been part of the character's narrative going on 90 years now, proving just how stupid this sudden, performative outrage is now.
He was alien from another planet. I've never, in 55 years, heard Superman called an "immigrant".
The Original Houston 1836
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I'm just glad we were finally able to bring a political conversation to the Entertainment board. Long overdue.
ArchAg01
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agdoc2001
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The director made a political statement and the potential audience had a reaction to the statement. Nice gaslighting though.
Serious Lee
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for once, it wasnt F16 that made it political. NPC doesn't care
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Serious Lee said:

for once, it wasnt F16 that made it political. NPC doesn't care
Apparently it is verboten that any one who has/does post on F16 is not allowed to post when a movie director makes a political statement about his upcoming movie.
TCTTS
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Lathspell said:

TCTTS said:

Celebrating/endorsing kindness and saying "screw you" to those who don't aren't contradictory sentiments.
And this one sentence tells me everything I need to know about you.

Anyone who is truly a kind person or strives to be would know the two points in his statement are contradictory. This is literally the basis of several of Jesus' teachings and is a core tenant of Christianity.

Honestly, that statement encapsulates the entire leftist ideology and justifications for their violent actions. Anyone who would make this statement is not truly a kind person. They are simply virtue signaling without truly committing to the virtue. Sounds like Hollywood, to me.

Spare me this sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, straw man bull*****

Literally no one here is advocating for violence, and to imply that me or Gunn or anyone else are leaning that direction or "encapsulate" anything of the sort is one of the biggest stretches/lies I've read on this board in a long, long time, and that's saying something.

Gunn is simply saying "screw people who are assh*les," and the fact that some of you can manage to find controversy in that, or are turning such a statement into some kind of anti-Gunn, pro-Christian screed is, truly, bat**** insane.

Granted, it's obvious what this is really about, as it's the same handful of folks as always, in y'all's quest to forever be offended, telling on yourselves because you think he's talking about you. You think he's telling conservatives or MAGA or whoever "screw you," when, in reality, he said nothing of the sort.

Again, he's simply talking about assh*les. Period.

And yet, somehow, here we are, talking about how not liking people who are assh*les is somehow bad.

Good lord, the crazy on this site has become increasingly impossible to navigate.

Not to mention, I've read your posts on F16 for years and you are anything but Christian in the way you treat/talk about people who disagree with you, which makes you the worst kind of hypocrite, and tells me everything *I* need to know about *you*.
TCTTS
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agracer said:

TCTTS said:

Again, Superman-as-an-immigrant (specifically hinging on the word "immigrant") has been part of the character's narrative going on 90 years now, proving just how stupid this sudden, performative outrage is now.
He was alien from another planet. I've never, in 55 years, heard Superman called an "immigrant".

Seeing as you apparently missed it from yesterday, below is Zack Snyder talking about Superman's "immigrant story" and comparing Earth to America in that regard.

Also, feel free to google "Superman" + "immigrant" and you'll find COUNTLESS articles, reddit posts, etc over the years discussing exactly that.

It's nothing new. Not even remotely.

TCTTS
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agracer
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TCTTS said:

agracer said:

TCTTS said:

Again, Superman-as-an-immigrant (specifically hinging on the word "immigrant") has been part of the character's narrative going on 90 years now, proving just how stupid this sudden, performative outrage is now.
He was alien from another planet. I've never, in 55 years, heard Superman called an "immigrant".

Seeing as you apparently missed it from yesterday, below is Zack Snyder talking about Superman's "immigrant story" and comparing Earth to America in that regard.

Also, feel free to google "Superman" + "immigrant" and you'll find COUNTLESS articles, reddit posts, etc over the years discussing exactly that.

It's nothing new. Not even remotely.


The last 10 years or so is not even close to your original statement of 90+ years of Superman.

I've been a Superman comic/movie fan since the 70's. NEVER once heard him referred to as an immigrant. And a rando interview with Snyder isn't exactly something we're all going to be aware of in common lexicon.
schmendeler
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Never hearing him described that way doesn't change his story. How is he not an immigrant?
FL_Ag1998
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

Serious Lee said:

for once, it wasnt F16 that made it political. NPC doesn't care
Apparently it is verboten that any one who has/does post on F16 is not allowed to post when a movie director makes a political statement about his upcoming movie.


I for one don't care other than finding it humerous when F16 regulars who rarely to never post on this board rush over here to post only when a "lib" has said something and the poster is gleefully hoping the movie/show fails.

Not pointing the finger at you, you bring a lot to this board. Moreso pointing to the poster I called out in my previous post.
TCTTS
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The Original Houston 1836
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agdoc2001 said:

The director made a political statement and the potential audience had a reaction to the statement. Nice gaslighting though.
It's called sarcasm.
TCTTS
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AgfromHOU
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Next we are going to argue about how Superman is a "social justice warrior", in spite of that being a core tenant of his character since Action Comics #1 in 1938.
AgfromHOU
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20ag07 said:

Gunn had 2 simple choices here.

Clark is an alien. Don't use the word "immigrant".

Then don't say "yes, this is political".

Avoid those 2 missteps, and you get no negative headlines.


All art is political, but ok
20ag07
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A $200+M blockbuster is not exactly "art".

But it's really not hard. Keep your damn mouth shut if you aren't trying to create controversy. (Which some people have a reason to do.)

You don't when your fan base is middle-aged white dudes from the heartland.
AgfromHOU
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Art is subjective. Even blockbusters are "art" because of all of the steps involved in making it, from creative writing to the composition of a shot/frame.

If the "fan base" loves Superman so much, they should already know what Superman is (an alien immigrant), and what was said isn't a problem. Maybe they shouldn't be snowflakes about it and get offended by "political" or "immigrant". If anything, Superman is the ultimate positive immigrant story, with him achieving the American Dream and being a representation of what America thinks it is. The problem is that isn't what America is, and that's what is creating this "controversy".

You want someone of opposite views to keep their mouth shut, but if it's the same as yours I would doubt you say the same thing.

Even Superman 1978 is political and examines American ideals in a time of hyper individualism and distrust in the government.
20ag07
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Quote:

You want someone of opposite views to keep their mouth shut, but if it's the same as yours I would doubt you say the same thing.
My views have never been political.

I simply don't think the director of a blockbuster should be talking about "human kindness" and then telling anyone who doesn't agree with him to "go screw themselves" in the same sentence.

And he definitely shouldn't be doing it the week before his movie opens.
schmendeler
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"Human kindness" is now a political hot topic. This is where we are in 2025.
Sea Speed
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Human kindness doesn't mean we should let every single person on earth who wants to come to American in to America.

Also equating superman to modern immigration is disingenuous at best. There is not a creature in the known universe that can add the kind of value superman does, and equating his story to the realities of modern immigration and using his immigration as a cudgel to beat people opposed to the realities of modern immigration over the head is absurd on its face.

 
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