evan_aggie said:

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Travel insurance! That's a very good point. I've never bought it because I honestly thought it's a bit of a scam but sounds like it'd come handy in times like these.

I always wondered how much fighting would be required to cover your real costs or if they have limits. I'll read more closely.

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It's an absolute must if you book a vacation or vacation activities that are tied to specific dates (ie, a cruise) or that are non-refundable. I don't always buy it, but the times I have are when I've booked a cruise or a group trip that departs on a specific date. I use a website called insuremytrip dot com. You can buy trip insurance for just about anything, although the cancel for any reason policies have been harder to come by and more expensive post-Covid.

Just some of the the things it can cover (depending on what policy you buy) that some people don't think of:

Having to cancel a trip because of sickness, injury, or death of a close family member.

Having to cancel a trip because of work obligations.

Getting injured on a trip and needing specialized medical care. Health insurance companies sometimes won't pay for this - a good example would be if you get sick on a cruise and have to be air-lifted off the boat.

They also offer plans that cover missed portions of the trip, and they give much more generous allowances than the airlines to for lost/missing luggage.

The cost is typically tied to what "options" you want as well as the total cost of your trip. But if you're spending thousands or tens of thousands of dollars on a trip, the insurance will probably only be a few hundred, which is nothing compared to what you could lose.

The insurance company also expects you to purchase as soon as you make the reservations/pay a deposit. The terms and cost can change if you wait, and waiting until the last minute is going to cause problems.

I NEVER buy insurance from the company I travel with. Our cruises and group travel have been with Disney, and their trip insurance is overpriced crap with tons of exclusions.

Same, but DAL.

Sister, nephew, and I were home in El Paso. We're flying tomorrow and our flight back to Dallas (which continues for my sister to Lubbock) was canceled and earliest would get me in 10:30pm Saturday. Not the worst thing in the world for me but I would be out some blood pressure medication for a few days. My sister on the other hand is leaving for a cruise Monday.

Our biggest concern was if another wave of delays occurred she may not make it back in time to be with her husband who left early or make the cruise or I would start missing work. We all hopped in a vehicle with my parents and made it to Lubbock last night to drop them off and making a fun trip to Dallas today for my parents.

I am a loyal southwest customer but damn if this doesn't cause me to think about different plans when we visit my uncle for Christmas in Phoenix next year

We are pulling into our house after a quick decision in Denver last night to grab a rental car instead of trying to deal with United. Had to wait an hour and a half at hertz in a first come first serve line but finally got a car around 9:00 and took off. Glad to be getting home.

National Car rental quoted me $770 to drive home on the phone yesterday. Drove to the airport and got an extra day and only paying $26 extra.

So only out that plus gas and 14+ hours on the road. Feeling very blessed at the moment.

Will be growly tomorrow afternoon during our drive, but glad to have a plan.

Good luck to the rest y'all stuck.

Edit to add driving from Colorado Springs to Houston

We will be driving from CS to Nashville beginning this evening. Considered renting a car and flying back but I don't trust SWA to not cancel our return flight.

You sure you got an extra day and returning in houston? Seems like the airport agents were confused and just gave you an extra day, but same return location based on that price.

If not, good on you.

Yup. I was quoted on the phone yesterday evening $770 in addition to our current charges. He said the system said to charge me an additional $691. He got it down to under $26 with a Friday return. This was the same guy that rented the car to us Christmas morning and got us upgrade to an suv for only $50 more. I think going to the airport rental counter and working with a nice person behind the counter is the difference.

Luck might have played a roll.

I still have to ride in the car with my three kids for 14 hours so there's that!

I will now be driving 8 hours from KC to Dallas with my wife and 11 month old daughter thanks to SWA. #FSouthwest

Gilligan said:

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Yup. I was quoted on the phone yesterday evening $770 in addition to our current charges. He said the system said to charge me an additional $691. He got it down to under $26 with a Friday return. This was the same guy that rented the car to us Christmas morning and got us upgrade to an suv for only $50 more. I think going to the airport rental counter and working with a nice person behind the counter is the difference.

Luck might have played a roll.

I still have to ride in the car with my three kids for 14 hours so there's that!

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Nice to see agents at other companies helping people. I tried to extend our Budget rental online. Charge was another $1000 but it wouldn't let me confirm. Agent on the phone charge <$600. We considered ourselves VERY lucky.

Word of advice for those renting cars: save all your paperwork and emails until the actual (not pending) charge hits your cc. I had a situation back in September where my credit card was charged almost $100 more than what my paperwork said. Phone agent tried to claim I added on extra insurance when I picked the car up at the counter. That was a lie because 1) I still had my paperwork from the counter and that box wasn't checked and 2) my rental rate was a corporate rate that already included the coverage they claimed I added.

So the flight I'm supposed to be on to Denver on Saturday has flown the past two days. Today it was on time, yesterday it was delayed 3 hours. I'm rolling the dice and hoping Saturday's flight goes as planned. Probably a mistake but flight prices sky rocketed on other airlines and I feel like going hub to hub has a decent shot of not being cancelled. We won't be checking bags. If it gets cancelled we'll just drive.

Here's what get me. It seems like this thing was festering for a several days until it started getting press coverage.

I was scheduled to fly out the evening of the 27th. I dutifully went the Southwest on the 26th and checked in at exactly 24 hours in advance (and still only got position B19). It wasn't until a couple of hours later that I saw the first headlines of the Southwest meltdown over the previous days.

They soon cancelled the second leg of my flight, but left the first leg hanging. I was in a conundrum. Do I keep the reservation for the first leg, which at least gets me halfway home? At least from there I had multiple options for getting the rest of the way home.

I ended up finding a direct flight on United for tomorrow evening. I'm sweating bullets afraid that something will happen to it.

torrid said:

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Here's what get me. It seems like this thing was festering for a several days until it started getting press coverage.

I was scheduled to fly out the evening of the 27th. I dutifully went the Southwest on the 26th and checked in at exactly 24 hours in advance (and still only got position B19). It wasn't until a couple of hours later that I saw the first headlines of the Southwest meltdown over the previous days.

They soon cancelled the second leg of my flight, but left the first leg hanging. I was in a conundrum. Do I keep the reservation for the first leg, which at least gets me halfway home? At least from there I had multiple options for getting the rest of the way home.

I ended up finding a direct flight on United for tomorrow evening. I'm sweating bullets afraid that something will happen to it.

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It was. Had I been paying attention, I would have checked Flight Aware and seen that my son's route from BHM to HOU hadn't flown since Friday Dec 23. All the flights on the 24 and 25 and the am flight on the 26 were cancelled. There is always at least one flight per day, sometimes two. There were 4 cancelled flights in the FA history.

But I was enjoying Christmas with my BF's family and wasn't even thinking to check something like this. Had Southwest notified me, I could have rebooked him on a United flight on his original day of travel.

The amount and timeliness of the communication on this is what will cost the CEO his job. He's is going to get railed on again and again for not announcing the issue and laying out the plan for both passengers and employees.

They knew they had issues non-weather related over the weekend as the system began to hiccup. They knew or should have known wide spread cancellations were not just possible, but likely if not certain.

Passengers could have begun at that time to make alternate arrangements. We could have rescheduled my inlaws on American and they would have been home 2 days ago with their luggage and meds. Instead, they just got home and I just got a letter from SWA saying sometime over the next week their luggage will be delivered to their home.

No info even at this time regarding the original ticket, refunds, etc. Heck, as far as SWA knows they are still in Dallas. No self-service is available online to cancel or change tickets.

Our people are in their desired cities now (at our proactive work and personal expense) and I know SWA will provide comp. But we are in a fine position vs people stuck out of town with no alternates.

Another tip…

I just filed my first claim with SW for my son's flight. Be sure you keep all the original flight confirmation info that you received in emails. If you try to pull it up in your RR account, the cancelled flights are gone.

You need the original flight info (dates, airports, and flight #s) as well as the confirmation code.

I was able to attach the receipt for my son's United flight and requested compensation for that, in addition to the flight that was cancelled. I originally paid with flight credits, so I'm curious how they handle that.

I also requested that any reimbursement via credits be TRANSFERRABLE, using the rationale that my son is a dependent under my care, and while he may have taken the flight, I paid for it.

Also, keep any confirmation that you paid for early boarding. We paid extra for early check in for my BF and his two sons. They are all well over 6 ft, and I wanted to be sure they got aisle seats. So we are out for the unused "upgrades" from the cancelled flight.

Edited to add: I just logged onto my cc to see a brand new refund of $60 pending from Southwest. I believe that's the boarding position upgrade that we didn't use. So at least they are on top of that.

So is the only reason SWA still has a cattle call boarding process due to their antiquated not being able to handle seat assignments? I can't think of any other benefits of their boarding process otherwise.

Jock 07 said:

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So is the only reason SWA still has a cattle call boarding process due to their antiquated not being able to handle seat assignments? I can't think of any other benefits of their boarding process otherwise.

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How is it a cattle call? Everyone has a specific spot in line.

Jock 07 said:

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So is the only reason SWA still has a cattle call boarding process due to their antiquated not being able to handle seat assignments? I can't think of any other benefits of their boarding process otherwise.

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I don't think so. They've sold it in the past as a "feature".

And honestly, I prefer it. I have been so annoyed with United over seat fees lately. I've priced flights where EVERY single aisle seat has an upcharge over the base ticket price.

I've never had an issue getting an aisle seat on a SW flight, except for one time when I forgot to check us in at the 24 hour mark. I actually forgot for quite a few hours. And even then I could have paid to upgrade to a better boarding position. And that typically only costs $20-$40, depending on the flight.

I feel like the "cattle call" description is a misnomer, too. They board A 1-30 first, then A 31-60, then families with young kids, then the same 1-30/31-60 for B and C. It's actually very organized, and boarding typically goes quickly.

Even if you're in a B boarding group, you can still get an aisle seat. If you get stuck with C, it's because you didn't check in soon enough.

TXTransplant said:

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Gilligan said:

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Yup. I was quoted on the phone yesterday evening $770 in addition to our current charges. He said the system said to charge me an additional $691. He got it down to under $26 with a Friday return. This was the same guy that rented the car to us Christmas morning and got us upgrade to an suv for only $50 more. I think going to the airport rental counter and working with a nice person behind the counter is the difference.

Luck might have played a roll.

I still have to ride in the car with my three kids for 14 hours so there's that!

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Nice to see agents at other companies helping people. I tried to extend our Budget rental online. Charge was another $1000 but it wouldn't let me confirm. Agent on the phone charge <$600. We considered ourselves VERY lucky.

Word of advice for those renting cars: save all your paperwork and emails until the actual (not pending) charge hits your cc. I had a situation back in September where my credit card was charged almost $100 more than what my paperwork said. Phone agent tried to claim I added on extra insurance when I picked the car up at the counter. That was a lie because 1) I still had my paperwork from the counter and that box wasn't checked and 2) my rental rate was a corporate rate that already included the coverage they claimed I added.

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Let me guess, Enterprise with the added insurance? They did the same thing to me two rentals in a row in same situation with corporate rates that already cover it. I won't use them anymore because it is not an isolated occurrence with them. They are just a sketchy company.

Wow, 60% cancelled today AND tomorrow. The lost revenue has to be staggering. In the meantime they are burning cash everyday to get out of this self inflicted hole. Don't see how senior mgmt survives this. Wonder why they can't improve the number of flights departing day over day? That is really unacceptable to be in the same operational situation this many days in a row with little or no improvement.

Can't wait for their fare sales in the future to bring people back.

txags92 said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Gilligan said:

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Yup. I was quoted on the phone yesterday evening $770 in addition to our current charges. He said the system said to charge me an additional $691. He got it down to under $26 with a Friday return. This was the same guy that rented the car to us Christmas morning and got us upgrade to an suv for only $50 more. I think going to the airport rental counter and working with a nice person behind the counter is the difference.

Luck might have played a roll.

I still have to ride in the car with my three kids for 14 hours so there's that!

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Nice to see agents at other companies helping people. I tried to extend our Budget rental online. Charge was another $1000 but it wouldn't let me confirm. Agent on the phone charge <$600. We considered ourselves VERY lucky.

Word of advice for those renting cars: save all your paperwork and emails until the actual (not pending) charge hits your cc. I had a situation back in September where my credit card was charged almost $100 more than what my paperwork said. Phone agent tried to claim I added on extra insurance when I picked the car up at the counter. That was a lie because 1) I still had my paperwork from the counter and that box wasn't checked and 2) my rental rate was a corporate rate that already included the coverage they claimed I added.

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Let me guess, Enterprise with the added insurance? They did the same thing to me two rentals in a row in same situation with corporate rates that already cover it. I won't use them anymore because it is not an isolated occurrence with them. They are just a sketchy company.

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No, Budget. Which I think has merged with Avis. I swear, they all pull the same shady tactics.

I got hit with a separate $6 charge on that rental because the tank wasn't "full". The gauge on the dash sure as heck said it was full, and my son filled it up until the pump clicked off. But the fine print of the rental agreement says some vehicles have "tracking devices" that can measure fuel down to the 0.25 gallon. And they charge you if you're short. Such a scam.

Not sure how else to describe it when you're having to jockey with all the other passengers for your spot in line. And then what happens when your first flight is late and they're already boarding your connecting flight and have already called your group? What happens when you're in a meeting and/or don't have access to your phone/computer and aren't able to check in 24hrs right on the dot, you wind up having to spend the extra money for the early check in.

As long as you buy a regular economy ticket (which is typically the same price as/if not cheaper than SWA) on any of the legacy carriers you can pick your seat, I've never had an issue getting aisle seats. And if you wind up flying just somewhat often you make status and get access to the various economy plus products giving you extra legroom.

Obviously personal preference but I'm of the opinion that being able to reduce all of the variables on seat assignments is preferable to letting it ride on SWA's process. But it is interesting that they're the only ones that use that process.

Jock 07 said:

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So is the only reason SWA still has a cattle call boarding process due to their antiquated not being able to handle seat assignments? I can't think of any other benefits of their boarding process otherwise.

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Only airline where I as a single flyer can sit in the first ten rows on the aisle and not pay exorbitant fees for it

I agree united has gotten worse about what seats qualify without upgrades. But every flight I've booked you can still get aisle or window, just towards the back of the plane. And if you travel even somewhat regularly you can upgrade at no cost.

Either way, agree with the above poster in that I 100% would rather pick my seat ahead of time. Honestly, if I don't think overhead space will be an issue, I just hang out in the terminal and board with last call.

KW02 said:

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Can't wait for their fare sales in the future to bring people back.

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I just hope their maintenance operations processes and systems are much more advanced than those of their flight operations......

Honestly, I've never had an issue lining up to board a SW flight. People are usually very polite, and often they will ask what your boarding number is so that they don't cut you off. I've had more issues on United and American where everyone, no matter what their "status", crowds the "line" (and I use that term loosely) because they want to be the first on the plane when their boarding position is called. Also, lots of fighting over bin space on the airlines that charge for checked bags.

Every once in a while, you'll get some jack hole who thinks they shouldn't have to wait in line at all. There was a SJL look-a-like on one of our recent SW flights who did that. The gate agent didn't call her out and the rest of us just rolled our eyes. But it's not like that can't/doesn't happen on other airlines.

I'm not loyal enough to any one airline (not even SW) to achieve any elite or preferred status, so it works for me.

As far as the prices are concerned, SW isn't always the cheapest, but their cheapest "wanna get away" price (no charge for a carry on and two free checked bags) is pretty consistently the same as or cheaper than United's cheapest economy price, which only allows a backpack and doesn't let you pick your seat, either. If you want to pick your seat and have a carry on, United's price is usually more (not always, but most of the time).

Price isn't the only factor for me…I also look at number of flights available and flight times. But the not being able to pick a specific seat on Southwest has never been an issue for me at all. Even with the drive, I also prefer Hobby over IAH, too.

Also, a lot of United's and American's domestic routes now fly Embraer jets. We had to fly to IAH to Philly on one, and they forced us to gate check our carry ons because the plane wasn't big enough for them. I NEVER check bags, and this really ticked me off because we had to go to baggage claim to get them (no jetway bag return).

My son and I MUCH prefer a 737. And no worries about a plane change that now invalidates your seat selection (had that happen on United this summer).

I have traveled frequently Dallas to Houston over the past 15 years. Southwest was always my go to and typically flew on Business Select fares with the dynamic schedule I had. About 5 years or so ago, I could regularly find first class fare on American or United 1 to 2 days out that was same or cheaper than BS on SWA. Now if things changed then I was screwed, but I moved about 25% of my flying over.

Since JSX, its a no brainer for me how to go.

Regarding the boarding, even in FC boarding is significantly worse on the legacy carriers vs SWA. Not even close. And the only time I have had to gate check has been on legacy carriers.

If people cannot figure out sequential boarding, they are either stupid or trying to cheat.

2wealfth Man said:

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Wow, 60% cancelled today AND tomorrow. The lost revenue has to be staggering. In the meantime they are burning cash everyday to get out of this self inflicted hole.

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They have to be on the verge of serious liquidity issues and triggering lending covenants.

fka ftc said:

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Since JSX, its a no brainer for me how to go.

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my wife starts flying as a pilot there in march....pretty stoked as i haven't flown with them yet

SoTheySay said:

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We will be driving from CS to Nashville beginning this evening. Considered renting a car and flying back but I don't trust SWA to not cancel our return flight.

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Be careful at BNA, Southwest is calling the cops on you if you don't gtfo when your flight is canceled.

WOW: Nashville airport cop threatens to arrest stranded passengers who are standing in line at a Southwest counter to rebook their cancelled flights (1/2) pic.twitter.com/UARLErYdSZ

— Brad Batt for TN State Sanity ✊🏼✊🏽✊🏾 (@bradbatt) December 28, 2022

Saw others saying they had it happen to them at TPA as well.

Just read a post on Facebook from a SWA pilot. He says that long time employees, both pilots and ground crews, have seen this coming since Herb retired in 2004. Herb was an operational guy but the next 2 or maybe 3 CEOs have been more interested in the business side. Because everything was going well and SWA was making money they did not see the need to spend money on new technology and that SWA is still operating on technology from the 1990s,

He states that the new CEO (Bob Lee?) promised new technology and is more of an operational guy. He thinks Lee is the right man for the job but it will take a few years to get SWA turned around. He said Lee inherited this mess but did not create it.

TXTransplant said:

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Jock 07 said:

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So is the only reason SWA still has a cattle call boarding process due to their antiquated not being able to handle seat assignments? I can't think of any other benefits of their boarding process otherwise.

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I don't think so. They've sold it in the past as a "feature".

And honestly, I prefer it. I have been so annoyed with United over seat fees lately. I've priced flights where EVERY single aisle seat has an upcharge over the base ticket price.

I've never had an issue getting an aisle seat on a SW flight, except for one time when I forgot to check us in at the 24 hour mark. I actually forgot for quite a few hours. And even then I could have paid to upgrade to a better boarding position. And that typically only costs $20-$40, depending on the flight.

I feel like the "cattle call" description is a misnomer, too. They board A 1-30 first, then A 31-60, then families with young kids, then the same 1-30/31-60 for B and C. It's actually very organized, and boarding typically goes quickly.

Even if you're in a B boarding group, you can still get an aisle seat. If you get stuck with C, it's because you didn't check in soon enough.

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Only issue I have with their method of boarding is that one person in a group will by an upgrade and hold seats for the ones that are in the B or C group.

Irritates the hell out of me and the FA's don't bother saying anything to them the majority of the time.

Ag81Golf said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Jock 07 said:

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So is the only reason SWA still has a cattle call boarding process due to their antiquated not being able to handle seat assignments? I can't think of any other benefits of their boarding process otherwise.

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I don't think so. They've sold it in the past as a "feature".

And honestly, I prefer it. I have been so annoyed with United over seat fees lately. I've priced flights where EVERY single aisle seat has an upcharge over the base ticket price.

I've never had an issue getting an aisle seat on a SW flight, except for one time when I forgot to check us in at the 24 hour mark. I actually forgot for quite a few hours. And even then I could have paid to upgrade to a better boarding position. And that typically only costs $20-$40, depending on the flight.

I feel like the "cattle call" description is a misnomer, too. They board A 1-30 first, then A 31-60, then families with young kids, then the same 1-30/31-60 for B and C. It's actually very organized, and boarding typically goes quickly.

Even if you're in a B boarding group, you can still get an aisle seat. If you get stuck with C, it's because you didn't check in soon enough.

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Only issue I have with their method of boarding is that one person in a group will by an upgrade and hold seats for the ones that are in the B or C group.

Irritates the hell out of me and the FA's don't bother saying anything to them the majority of the time.

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We kind of did this last week. My BF took an aisle seat when he boarded in A group and his youngest and I sat in the row with him when we boarded in B. It used to annoy me, too, but I don't feel like saving a middle or window seat is really a coveted position (I hate sitting by the window). I would never have asked him to save me an aisle seat. And I would be ticked if someone saved an exit row seat with more leg room.

Also, my BF is a big guy, so no average size person would likely want to sit next to him. I don't mind because I love him and can rest my head on his shoulder, but it is a tight squeeze. So I didn't feel too bad about it.

Do we know what SW considers "reasonable" when requesting reimbursement?