The Southwest Christmas disaster

43,095 Views | 481 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by fka ftc
TXTransplant
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djmeen95 said:

Welp - we're supposed to fly back to Houston from Midland on Wednesday. Guess we'll see tomorrow if that has any chance of happening.


Flight Aware shows only one flight making it from Midland to HOU on Sunday. All others, including flights tomorrow through 655 pm, have been cancelled.

I'd be trying to find a rental car.
2wealfth Man
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here is the BIG problem going forward in resetting operations:

"our systems are currently unable to advise what pilots have timed out and when those pilots who have not yet timed out will."

they are now going to have to reset all of their pilots hours on duty-wise: they've lost track.

wow, just, wow
torrid
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Just got an e-mail from SW admitting to the obvious. There was a link where you could enter your name and confirmation number to request a refund for any unused portions of your flight. We'll see them how long it takes them to process.

I actually found a good rate on United for a couple of days later, so I re-booked there. I may wind up being out about $50 for my trouble.
evan_aggie
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New CEO earlier this year...having a broad range of roles at SWA and being from a comp sci background. Bob might be too comfortable with Fortran running the systems.

https://swamedia.com/pages/bob-jordan

having earned an undergraduate degree in computer science and a master's degree in business administration. Bob has served the university in many capacities, including the Mays Business School Dean's Advisory Board, and the Board of the Association of Former Students, and is the recipient of both the Texas A&M University Computer Science Distinguished Former Student and the Mays Business School Outstanding Alumni Awards.
txags92
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djmeen95 said:

Welp - we're supposed to fly back to Houston from Midland on Wednesday. Guess we'll see tomorrow if that has any chance of happening.
Not sure how many trips SW runs to Midland from Hobby each day, but flight aware is already showing 3 cancellations from HOU to Midland on Wednesday and has 100% by that number. I'd be planning to drive if I were you.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/plus2days/Hou
Pahdz
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superunknown said:

Former business traveler, southwest was the worst. Hot garbage on communications, the app is terrible, the website is terrible. I'm sure it's great if you're back and forth from HOU to DAL 4 times a week but any minimal disruption and they descend into chaos. Can't say I'm really surprised their internal crew scheduling software is failing them. If only Texans would stop blindly following them because Texas and if people looked past the hokey cornball FAs and their jokes, they'd see that any of the other big airlines do a far better job at getting people places.


I'm convinced many SWA travelers are some that still think those $19 fares from 20 years ago make them the automatic cheapest and don't even check other carriers. I haven't flown SWA in 20 years (having lived in Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, OKC and Minneapolis) and never missed them.
TXTransplant
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torrid said:

Just got an e-mail from SW admitting to the obvious. There was a link where you could enter your name and confirmation number to request a refund for any unused portions of your flight. We'll see them how long it takes them to process.

I actually found a good rate on United for a couple of days later, so I re-booked there. I may wind up being out about $50 for my trouble.


Haven't gotten that email, yet. I booked my son's flight with credits from a previous flight. I'm wondering how that's going to shake out. Especially since it cost an additional $500 to book him with United.
TXTransplant
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Pahdz said:

superunknown said:

Former business traveler, southwest was the worst. Hot garbage on communications, the app is terrible, the website is terrible. I'm sure it's great if you're back and forth from HOU to DAL 4 times a week but any minimal disruption and they descend into chaos. Can't say I'm really surprised their internal crew scheduling software is failing them. If only Texans would stop blindly following them because Texas and if people looked past the hokey cornball FAs and their jokes, they'd see that any of the other big airlines do a far better job at getting people places.


I'm convinced many SWA travelers are some that still think those $19 fares from 20 years ago make them the automatic cheapest and don't even check other carriers. I haven't flown SWA in 20 years (having lived in Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, OKC and Minneapolis) and never missed them.


No one thinks they are the cheapest anymore. They are often about the same price as United, just without the seat and checked bag fees. The exception might be the new routes out of IAH because they are trying to build that customer base.

People like me fly SW because we'd rather fly out of HOU than IAH any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
dallasattnyag
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Supposed to fly DAL to SJO tomorrow at 3 pm through Hobby. Flight isn't showing canceled as of now. Most of the Dal to Hobby morning flights are canceled but not all. Since SW has already canceled so many flights are my odds decent?
djmeen95
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Yep. Went ahead and booked a rental car just in case our flights get cancelled. Figured I can easily cancel that reservation if I need to but I don't see how they get back online for the Wednesday flights given all their flights tomorrow to Houston are cancelled.

We're blessed in that we're with my in-laws and we've got a place to stay. And the drive ain't that bad so we'll just plan to head back a couple of days later than we planned.
2wealfth Man
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dallasattnyag said:

Supposed to fly DAL to SJO tomorrow at 3 pm through Hobby. Flight isn't showing canceled as of now. Most of the Dal to Hobby morning flights are canceled but not all. Since SW has already canceled so many flights are my odds decent?
don't know how they can crew anything tomorrow at this point, I would avoid Love Field at all costs.
Pahdz
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I wasn't referring to you, I guarantee there still people who believe that. Joe Q. Public isn't the most travel savvy person.
TXTransplant
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2wealfth Man said:

dallasattnyag said:

Supposed to fly DAL to SJO tomorrow at 3 pm through Hobby. Flight isn't showing canceled as of now. Most of the Dal to Hobby morning flights are canceled but not all. Since SW has already canceled so many flights are my odds decent?
don't know how they can crew anything tomorrow at this point


What flight to HOU are you on? Flight aware is showing the 6 and 7 am flights are cancelled. 830 and 1030 are not cancelled.

Worst case scenario is you're stuck in HOU. If you're ok with that, I might risk it.

But SJO is international, right? I have a hard time believing they'd send a plane that far when so many are needed here in the States.
TXTransplant
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Pahdz said:

I wasn't referring to you, I guarantee there still people who believe that. Joe Q. Public isn't the most travel savvy person.


I like to believe those people fly Spirit. But you're prob right.
2wealfth Man
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TXTransplant said:

2wealfth Man said:

dallasattnyag said:

Supposed to fly DAL to SJO tomorrow at 3 pm through Hobby. Flight isn't showing canceled as of now. Most of the Dal to Hobby morning flights are canceled but not all. Since SW has already canceled so many flights are my odds decent?
don't know how they can crew anything tomorrow at this point


What flight to HOU are you on? Flight aware is showing the 6 and 7 am flights are cancelled. 830 and 1030 are not cancelled.

Worst case scenario is you're stuck in HOU. If you're ok with that, I might risk it.

But SJO is international, right? I have a hard time believing they'd send a plane that far when so many are needed here in the States.
SJO = San Jose, Costa Rica
dallasattnyag
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On the 3 pm to Houston, 520 to SJO. The hobby to SJO flight actually went through yesterday and today. Maybe they are prioritizing international due for some reason.
TXTransplant
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That's what I thought, but flight aware confused me a little. And it's well past my bedtime. Just trying to stay awake to be a good co-pilot.

And I can't imagine they are going to send a plane to Costa Rica tomorrow. If I were a traveler stuck somewhere, I'd be downright pissed if they did that.
TXTransplant
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dallasattnyag said:

On the 3 pm to Houston, 520 to SJO. The hobby to SJO flight actually went through yesterday and today. Maybe they are prioritizing international due for some reason.


That really surprises (and kind of angers) me.
dallasattnyag
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Well they have to send a plane to CR so the people in CR can get home. Being stuck in city like San Jose would not be fun.
TXTransplant
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dallasattnyag said:

Well they have to send a plane to CR so the people in CR can get home. Being stuck in city like San Jose would not be fun.


There is not a city anywhere right now where it's fun to be stuck. Some fliers have been stranded at airports since Saturday. It's hard for me to understand prioritizing that flight right now. Put those paxs on another airline. It's 150 paxs per day, max, vs hundreds of thousands all over the US.
Proposition Joe
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Our connecting flight from elpaso to Phoenix for Wednesday shows canned on flight aware, still not canned on app.

Don't have much choice now though but to hope for the best - flights to Phoenix for Fiesta bowl on other airlines are all now $2k+.

Will be a nice cheap game ticket for anyone that doesn't have to fly.
TXTransplant
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Proposition Joe said:

Our connecting flight from elpaso to Phoenix for Wednesday shows canned on flight aware, still not canned on app.

Don't have much choice now though but to hope for the best - flights to Phoenix for Fiesta bowl on other airlines are all now $2k+.

Will be a nice cheap game ticket for anyone that doesn't have to fly.


Can you not drive that? Google maps says it's <7 hours. Cancel the flights you have. At worst, you'll have a flight credit that never expires.

Edit: I see now it says El Paso is a connecting flight. My bad.
TexAgs1992
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Proposition Joe said:

Our connecting flight from elpaso to Phoenix for Wednesday shows canned on flight aware, still not canned on app.

Don't have much choice now though but to hope for the best - flights to Phoenix for Fiesta bowl on other airlines are all now $2k+.

Will be a nice cheap game ticket for anyone that doesn't have to fly.


I cancelled my flight to PHX for the Fiesta Bowl via SWA this evening and booked to Tucson with points. I have a friend on the same flight and with a rental car already in tow so I was fortunate to already know someone flying into Tucson.
RGV AG
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I don't know about post Covid times, but airlines used to be very, very leery of cancelling international flights. Reason being is that if there are folks in departure areas of a foreign country it likely means that they have "left" the country for immigration purposes and to leave the departure gates means many complications and costs.

In most countries in Latin America, especially in CR, to be admitted into the country a tourist has to have proof of outbound travel arrangements, which usually show up on the host countries immigration computers. Also, there is the cost of tourist visa, CR for one is expensive, I wanna say about $35 or so, prolly more now. So if SWA has a couple of plane loads of people waiting on a plane to show and it isn't coming they, as in SWA, have a problem as those people are basically in limbo is they are in the airport.

In the agreements with foreign countries and airports the US and international airlines have agreements that they will pay for lodging and meals for those that are stranded, and this includes outbound weather cancellations from their originating flight location. Covering these passengers does not involve them getting a "voucher", what ends up happening is that a passenger list is provided to a local hotel and the hotel checks the guests in. Airlines used to buy hundreds of rooms per year at discounted rates so that the hotels always had some for them. Maybe it is different now, but up through 2019 in LatAm that is the way it operated. Now foreign carriers like AeroMexico and TACA/Avianca would screw you if you were in their respective countries, but no US airline would.

Thus I would imagine that SWA keeps operating their international flights as much as possible.

I have understood that there is an expensive cancellation fee paid to the foreign governments for non-emergency cancellations.
TXTransplant
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That makes sense.
ContinentalAg
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What's going on? Hearing no re-books until Jan 1?
TXTransplant
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ContinentalAg said:

What's going on? Hearing no re-books until Jan 1?


Can't get through on the phone, app is useless, website is down, and there are somewhere between 500k and 1 MM passengers stranded around the country, some since Christmas Eve.

They are cutting their operations back by 70% to "get back on track". So, stranded passengers + not enough flights to rebook = shutdown of the entire booking system.

Even earlier today, before the meltdown hit its peak, there were no flights showing available for us until Friday. Which is why we are driving.
RGV AG
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Popped onto this thread to see WTF was going on, as we hadn't heard about the fiasco. Daughter was invited to attend a sports camp at Dartmouth and it is a big deal for her, but went to check in online and all the SWA flights were showing cancelled. Did some sweet talking and was able to use some old miles on United to fly them up in an odd way tomorrow, if everything goes right they will get there by the skin of their chinny, chin, chin.

Gosh this sucks ass and SWA has really fallen off. When I flew extensively for business, mainly international, I was saved a time or two by SWA, but this is the second really bad experience I have had with them in the last 8 months.

If SWA has the number of people stranded that is being bandied about they are in for some rough, rough times and bad pub.
djmeen95
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So looks like my Wednesday flight is indeed cancelled.

Fingers crossed that Avis doesn't somehow botch my rental.
sirhc
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In phx and had a flight out tomorrow morning at 8am back to hobby. Found out about 8pm it was cancelled from checking app. No email or text.

Went to the airport tonight to rent a car to drive back to Houston with the family.

Have 400k points, a list, and companion and am strongly considering switching airlines. This is a joke. Blaming it on weather but no other airline impacted like this.
TXTransplant
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Let's hope they have enough cars to honor all their reservations. We totally effed over whoever may have been expecting this minivan after we were supposed to turn it in.

Now that I've had a little time to reflect, today has been one of the most surreal days ever. Not because our travel plans were interrupted, but because of the whole chain of events leading up to the cancellation until now.

I watched this unfold starting at about 10 or 11 this am. Our plane from LGA to HOU was delayed for about 45 min. When that happens, I always go to flight aware to see where the inbound plane is.

The plane to LGA was coming from DEN. But it wasn't even in DEN. It was in Kansas City and had been for over two hours. When I started tracking, the KC flight to DEN was delayed by about 2 hours, but our LGA to HOU flight was only delayed by about an hour. Then that was a hour and a half. Then two hours. I think we finally peaked at a 2.5 hour delay.

In the meantime, the KC flight departs for DEN, but about 3 hours late. Then they cancel our flight (I assumed because they expected the crew would time out).

I'm also trying to watch my son's flight from BHM to HOU. It still shows as on time, then delayed for 25 min. Then 40. So I start tracking that inbound plane. It's supposed to be coming from Vegas. But it has to get from Dallas to Vegas first. And that plane is also sitting. It's an hour delayed out of Dallas, then two. I think it also peaked at about a 3+ hour delay before SW pulled the plug on my son's flight.

In the meantime, a 1:40 pm flight from LGA to HOU leaves on time. I see our cancellation notice shortly after 2 pm and immediately start trying to call SW and do whatever I can on the website or app. And that's when all hell breaks loose. Can't get through on the phone, app won't load, website is frozen.

I tell my son to call SW knowing that his flight is likely to be cancelled too, and he needs to get in line. He's gets the busy signal, is disconnected a few times, and even gets routed to a Spanish line at some point (and has to hang up)

That was all wasted effort. It took a travel agent and $500 to get him moved to a United flight.

20+ min on hold and $600 gets Budget to extend the car rental reservation to Wednesday so we can drive it to TX.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have called Budget as soon as we had my son rebooked. We wasted about 2 hours trying to get through to SW/decide what to do about the car.

I think somewhere around 2 or 3 is when SW cancelled all remaining flights for the day that weren't already in the air. I had been watching the dominoes fall to get them to that point but didn't realize it.

And now it's 2 am, and I'm somewhere between Kingsport and Knoxville, TN, with a 19 year old driving and my BF and his other two kids asleep in the back, trying desperately to stay awake until the next driver shift change.

Watching the craziness unfold, aside from the shock of it all (I will never understand how SW effed up THIS BAD), I feel nothing but gratitude that we moved quickly and I'm in a warm minivan that's taking me closer to home and not stuck on a bench at LGA airport with absolutely no clue when I might be leaving. And United is bringing my boy home tomorrow.
Matsui
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Wow. What a story. Safe travels the rest of the way home.
2wealfth Man
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Can't speak for other airlines, but a call agent friend at American said they are trying to be helpful when stranded folks are contacting them. May be worth a shot to talk to a live agent if you need to get home or travel somewhere for certain critical reasons. It is a good business decision by AA to do this.

On the Dec 31 rebooking date, don't expect miracles magically on Dec 31 if you are wanting to rebook. Ground staff, local airport employees and flight crews are exhausted and I would expect a high degree of staffing shortages over the New Years holiday. Some folks haven't been home in days and need a break from this mess.They also have to tackle the baggage issues once they restart, gonna take several PhD,s in logistics to figure thst one out. The pictures on social media don't do it justice; there are literally thousands and thousands of bags sitting airside at Love Field. It will take a long while after Dec 31 to clean this mess up.
maroonpivo
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We had this same thread discussion about SW and cancelled flights about a year ago. Recurring nightmare from them during the winter months.
Old Main
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The Department of Transportation tweeted that they will be investigating Southwest Airlines over everything that has transpired since the 23rd. Not a good look when the Feds have to get involved.
 
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