I've heard of a few clubs that did away with cart fees and added them in to the monthly dues. For the golf degenerates that played a lot it was great, but for the majority of the members they weren't getting the value out of it most months.

I looked at a handful of courses in Houston over the last year and can't recall any of them that didn't have carts separate

cab559 said:

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RigsTx said:

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I've heard of a few clubs that did away with cart fees and added them in to the monthly dues. For the golf degenerates that played a lot it was great, but for the majority of the members they weren't getting the value out of it most months.

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I think this same logic is applicable to all fees paid to the country club?

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Ha true, but cart fees are more a variable cost because you can choose to walk instead of ride which saves money or if you only play once or twice a month you don't want to get dinged for a $100-$200 cart fee every month.

The sunk costs of being a member at the club are known up front in the dues. I think F&B minimums are silly as well. I'm already paying to be a member. If I choose not to eat out there that should be my prerogative.

terradactylexpress said:

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I looked at a handful of courses in Houston over the last year and can't recall any of them that didn't have carts separate

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This wasn't in Houston. As another variable the club had houses on the property and members could have private carts and just pay a trail fee. I think the logic from the club was to go to a flat across the board fee for all members be it private cart or club cart. Not exactly sure on that though.

JCA1 said:

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There's an annual range assessment in January but I don't recall how much it is (I think around $300?). But I agree that from an optics standpoint, it would be better just to up dues $25/month than tag people for a range fee.

Carts being extra is pretty standard as far as I'm aware. Not sure you're going to find many clubs that include that in the dues.

Country clubs never make sense from a dollars and cents standpoint. No need to argue it. If it's not for you, so be it.

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So are you telling me when it's time for new cartsthe members won't be hit with an assessment or the cost of new carts won't come from their fees? Because I don't believe that for a second.

Just happened two years ago. All new carts and no assessment.

AgLA06 said:

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JCA1 said:

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There's an annual range assessment in January but I don't recall how much it is (I think around $300?). But I agree that from an optics standpoint, it would be better just to up dues $25/month than tag people for a range fee.

Carts being extra is pretty standard as far as I'm aware. Not sure you're going to find many clubs that include that in the dues.

Country clubs never make sense from a dollars and cents standpoint. No need to argue it. If it's not for you, so be it.

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So are you telling me when it's time for new cartsthe members won't be hit with an assessment or the cost of new carts won't come from their fees? Because I don't believe that for a second.

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We've turned over our fleet of carts twice since I've been a member and I've never been assessed anything for it. One time, they even sold off the existing fleet very cheap to the members.

Will the carts come from some combo of dues/cart fees? I would imagine so. I've been all over the property and not once have I seen a money tree. So, yes, the club has to buy things with the money it takes in from the members. Where else would the money come from? They're not free.

If they're using dues and charging cart fees, they're double dipping.

I guess the lore of a county club just isn't what I expected. I would have never imagined you'd get nickled and dimed at a place you're paying a second mortgage to be a member.

If you still have to pay to golf, especially at golf only clubs, what's the point?!?

My friend said They have a new awesome short game practice area. Spending $10+ mm redoing the course and added monthly assessment of like $200 to cover it for 4-5 years. So normal fees would be $700 range per month. Have too many junior executive memberships so trying to get normal numbers to higher percentage. New security and brick wall along Clay coming soon. He play tennis so the indoor courts are super nice add. New nine is awesome. All new tiff tuf grass and all new drainage and added mounds and new bunkers. New nine opens early November

It's glorious

Any of you good Ags who are Riverbend members up for a quick chat to discuss with me this club. I have a few specific questions I think may be better answered by someone not on the payroll. I'll put my email in my profile.

What club is this? Asking due to issues arising at my home club over 40% raise in personal cart fees. We are definitely a neighborhood club with majority personal carts.

I am very curious to learn what other clubs in Houston (outside of invited) are paying for their cart plans and personal cart trail fees.

130 a month or 25 per round for me

Mine raised to $155 family plan for personal carts or $210 for club carts family plan.

$26/round remained the same.

Alan Stanwyck said:

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No one thinks PF is like Lakeside come on. But you have to admit getting in at $3500 is a pretty good deal. I don't think they are going to get a lot of new members at 30 and they know that. What they will get is a flurry of members at 15 until that increase in November. And I'm sure if some of those that got in at 3-5k want to drop, they are absolutely fine with that.

I'll say this, and this is not to be offensive to you at all, but if you get in a fully private country club with 27 holes and all the other things they have for $3,500, then are going to complain about what are probably relatively small assessments for club improvements, then country clubs might not be for you.

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Alan - any insight on how membership has gone at PFCC since the large increase? We waited too long. It's still an option even at $36k, but I would feel pretty foolish to pay that if the Board decides a year later the increase didn't work and drops it back down to where it was last year.

Never seen initiation drop before

Its not going down. Actually after next nine is renovated it might go up and definitely after all 27 holes are done it will go up again.

There is a wait list at PFCC now, and once the renovation is complete initiation will be at $70k+. And people will pay it. It will never be as low as it is now so if you are having second thoughts, don't. That club is changing for the better at rapid speed.

The newly renovated gold nine at PFCC is great but IMO the club should not have cut corners when doing the final scope (this includes most tee boxes; drainage on green that they had to go back to the members on). They also should have renovated the entire course at once.

If you want to charge people $35k+ (and eventually $70k) you need to have a long-term master plan including a new clubhouse, but the club has historically lacked that vision as most members paid next to nothing to join. I think the new board is trying to change that.

Definitely feels like maybe the newer blood is starting to take over

I've never stepped foot on Pine Forest so I have no sense of comparison with where it was versus where it is going.

A 70K initiation puts it in the category of Royal Oaks or Grand Pines, or maybe a second tier club (top tier being ROCC, HCC, Lakeside, Lochinvar, etc.). Granted that is 27 holes versus 18, but for those of you familiar with PF, would you put it in the same league as Royal Oaks, etc.? I'm genuinely curious and not being condescending.

70k is a bit high in my opinion but I think they are all a bit high

My club is too high but they essentially don't want any more members so maybe PF is the same. If someone wants to throw 70k at it then they will take it

Or they are in a nice suppy/demand spot

150k for Lakeside and a 4 year waitlist....they are less than half of that and will take you now

Gotcha. From the time I discovered golf and joined a club, golf in the Houston area has starkly risen (as has a lot of things).

I think I'm still coming from a value/experience comparison perspective, versus the post-Covid market demands. So my first reaction is to attempt to compare similarly priced places. With moves like PFCC, Blackhorse going partially private, etc - its what the market is dictating in that area.

Also, IIRC you play at HO - I should've included them in the tier one category. Probably also Carlton Woods, Big Easy Ranch etc..

and the crazy thing is that Houston Country Clubs are a great deal compared to those in Dallas. I bet they have five or six clubs more expensive than our highest price club.

Absolute lack of options in West Houston are a key driver. Still half the cost of lakeside and significantly cheaper than RO

The 2025 info I saw had Royal Oaks at 75K initiation. But I get your point about West Houston options.

Top clubs in Houston area are at 225-250

Northwood in Dallas is in that area...im not aware of anything higher than 250 in Dallas.

MAROON said:

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and the crazy thing is that Houston Country Clubs are a great deal compared to those in Dallas. I bet they have five or six clubs more expensive than our highest price club.

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Does that include Lochinvar?