2020 said:

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Aggieland Proud said:

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Folks, we may need to bring the pitch forks back out as I heard a rumor yesterday that the city management has not committed to honoring the council's decision on the fate of Pebble Creek Parkway. The city manager is where I understood the finger is being pointed as being the roadblock. New elections can't get here fast enough and a new mayor is desperately needed.

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Can confirm that this is 100% accurate as of this week. The city manager is still trying to push through Pebble Creek parkway & has been aggressively working behind the scenes on it since council voted not to. It seems that most of council & the Mayor are very much in city management's pocket at the moment.

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Rule 1 for City Managers : Resume building involves high dollar projects.

The City Manager is trying to say it's too expensive. BUT, the city is building a new Fire Station down Greens Prairie Road, that is up against the ETJ on one side, meaning that it's not centrally located. Where was he when that decision was made? Looks like poor planning that didn't consider the future city growth.
With Southern Pointe going to be voluntarily annexed, how is it going to be served without a new station? Not through Pebble Creek and then through the new subdivision, before finally reaching Southern Pointe. If it's too slow to go via Lakeway for the new subdivision, are there any other areas of CS that are served with the same or similar times? This is a typical Bryan Woods smokescreen, with most Council members not having the backbone to question him and demand answers.
I thought this one was dead, but if it's truly going to be resurrected, we're only 11 months aways from an election that will include three Council members (Smith, Wright and Nichols) that have not supported pushing back on this issue. With White and Yancy supporting PC, three new members make a majority. I think Shafer will also side with rational people on this issue. Not sure about McIlhaney.

This is crazy. If the city manager wants this power (and he's not accountable to any voter) then run for council. I guess he wanted to pull a fast one during Christmas. It's time to vote people OUT! Starting with the mayor! Wright would be next.

TAMU1990 said:

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This is crazy. If the city manager wants this power (and he's not accountable to any voter) then run for council. I guess he wanted to pull a fast one during Christmas. It's time to vote people OUT! Starting with the mayor! Wright would be next.

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Don't look now, but Wright is now mayor pro tem…

Hornbeck said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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This is crazy. If the city manager wants this power (and he's not accountable to any voter) then run for council. I guess he wanted to pull a fast one during Christmas. It's time to vote people OUT! Starting with the mayor! Wright would be next.

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Don't look now, but Wright is now mayor pro tem…

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So did Nichols step down? Is he ill? Why did this happen?

He's not the mayor. But last night Wright was elected the mayor pro tem, who stands in if something happens to the mayor.

Single member districts cater to special interests, period. Your vote affects only two of the seven Council members, with the other five getting carte blanche. Is the Council screwing your neighborhood? Yes, but your Council member isn't? Too bad, you have no say in the matter.
Single Member Districts have played a role in minority representation, but the lack of affordable housing has decimated our minority population, so there's little left to protect.

I'm not sure if I posted this and it got deleted or I didn't post it yet.

I've felt that the Pebble Creek-as-throughfare option was pretty useless anyway as I believe it was just going to end at Highway 6 (Lakeway definitely so). Lakeway is also hampered by the Pebble Creek school zone.

But Pebble Creek is mostly wide enough in spots (except around Muirfield, and even then you could compromise) to make two lanes in each direction without much trouble, even a MUP. It's disappointing that Mr. Yancy is putting his own interests (a resident of Pebble Creek) ahead of his constituents (the city residents), but hey, that's politics for you.

What's your angle here?

I went to the council meeting where Pebble Creek homeowners came out in droves to speak out against this. I was one of the few non-Pebble Creek folks speaking out against it, but there were some. To portray him as the only person on council against this is incorrect. Wright voted against it. It was one of the things he promised in his campaign.

The council voted unanimously to not make it a thoroughfare. With the baseball complex going in, you will not need to push Pebble Creek Parkway through to Corporate, either.

The mayor was reluctant to agree, but eventually agreed.

He is being driven by the City Manager (IMHO), and the CM likes to rule with an iron fist until he gets his way.

Pebble Creek Parkway is not wide enough from Winged Foot/12th Man Circle down to just past Muirfield Village. A four lane with 200-300 yards of two lane is worthless. The city's head of planning told me, in writing, that it wasn't wide enough and that widening it was NOT recommended. Yes, they could wedge four lanes in there by taking out both bike lanes and sidewalks, but no one would go down that path. (Pun intended)

Let them eat cake!!

https://www.kbtx.com/2026/04/02/college-station-staff-recommends-pebble-creek-parkway-extension-plan-despite-resident-concerns/

A direct route between the fire station on W.D.F to the new developments off of Southern Point road would be considerably closer if Pebble creek parkway was extended.

I suppose the CoCS could build a new fire station on Southern Point just by the TXB. We could always use a new Taj Mahal. ; )

doubledog said:

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A direct route between the fire station on W.D.F to the new developments off of Southern Point road would be considerably closer if Pebble creek parkway was extended.

I suppose the CoCS could build a new fire station on Southern Point just by the TXB. We could always use a new Taj Mahal. ; )

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You are mostly correct & yes, I appreciate the sarcasm :-)

A few points I'd like to add. College Station does not currently meet the nationally recognized standards for fire department staffing or response. NFPA 1710 is what you'd want to google to verify for yourself. Bryan FD has 4-person minimum staffing per fire apparatus while College Station FD has only 3.

For response times, this is where your previous statement really matters. A straight line from Station 5 on Fitch to Southern Pointe still doesn't meet minimum response times for anything but "Area A" which is the area that would directly back up against pebble creek. Page 54 of the Kimley Horn study that the city has on their agenda packet for yesterday's planning & zoning commission meeting shows those times. Areas B, C, & D would all fall short on achieving response times. Area C would actually be faster via lakeway but the other 3 areas would then fall short.

Kimley Horn study p38; FD response times p54
https://opendoc.cstx.gov/WeblinkPublic/DocView.aspx?id=7201776&dbid=0&repo=DOCUMENT-SERVER

Bottom line is that none of these proposals are actual solutions that improve emergency service delivery to the citizens. Building additional fire stations and staffing personnel at actual recommended levels is the conversation that should be taking place imho.

And to be clear, we absolutely do not need another Taj Mahal :-))))

2020 said:

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doubledog said:

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A direct route between the fire station on W.D.F to the new developments off of Southern Point road would be considerably closer if Pebble creek parkway was extended.

I suppose the CoCS could build a new fire station on Southern Point just by the TXB. We could always use a new Taj Mahal. ; )

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You are mostly correct & yes, I appreciate the sarcasm :-)

A few points I'd like to add. College Station does not currently meet the nationally recognized standards for fire department staffing or response. NFPA 1710 is what you'd want to google to verify for yourself. Bryan FD has 4-person minimum staffing per fire apparatus while College Station FD has only 3.

For response times, this is where your previous statement really matters. A straight line from Station 5 on Fitch to Southern Pointe still doesn't meet minimum response times for anything but "Area A" which is the area that would directly back up against pebble creek. Page 54 of the Kimley Horn study that the city has on their agenda packet for yesterday's planning & zoning commission meeting shows those times. Areas B, C, & D would all fall short on achieving response times. Area C would actually be faster via lakeway but the other 3 areas would then fall short.

Kimley Horn study p38; FD response times p54
https://opendoc.cstx.gov/WeblinkPublic/DocView.aspx?id=7201776&dbid=0&repo=DOCUMENT-SERVER

Bottom line is that none of these proposals are actual solutions that improve emergency service delivery to the citizens. Building additional fire stations and staffing personnel at actual recommended levels is the conversation that should be taking place imho.

And to be clear, we absolutely do not need another Taj Mahal :-))))

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Given the fact that the CoCS will most likely not build and staff a new fire station, then what is the best alternative?

doubledog said:

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2020 said:

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doubledog said:

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A direct route between the fire station on W.D.F to the new developments off of Southern Point road would be considerably closer if Pebble creek parkway was extended.

I suppose the CoCS could build a new fire station on Southern Point just by the TXB. We could always use a new Taj Mahal. ; )

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You are mostly correct & yes, I appreciate the sarcasm :-)

A few points I'd like to add. College Station does not currently meet the nationally recognized standards for fire department staffing or response. NFPA 1710 is what you'd want to google to verify for yourself. Bryan FD has 4-person minimum staffing per fire apparatus while College Station FD has only 3.

For response times, this is where your previous statement really matters. A straight line from Station 5 on Fitch to Southern Pointe still doesn't meet minimum response times for anything but "Area A" which is the area that would directly back up against pebble creek. Page 54 of the Kimley Horn study that the city has on their agenda packet for yesterday's planning & zoning commission meeting shows those times. Areas B, C, & D would all fall short on achieving response times. Area C would actually be faster via lakeway but the other 3 areas would then fall short.

Kimley Horn study p38; FD response times p54
https://opendoc.cstx.gov/WeblinkPublic/DocView.aspx?id=7201776&dbid=0&repo=DOCUMENT-SERVER

Bottom line is that none of these proposals are actual solutions that improve emergency service delivery to the citizens. Building additional fire stations and staffing personnel at actual recommended levels is the conversation that should be taking place imho.

And to be clear, we absolutely do not need another Taj Mahal :-))))

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Given the fact that the CoCS will most likely not build and staff a new fire station, then what is the best alternative?

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Are we talking specifically about fire response or traffic needs as a whole? For traffic as a whole, the study suggests that removing the pebble creek expansion from the plan is ideal in that it "results in conditions improving from Nearing Congested conditions to Acceptable Conditions." This is looking at 2045 projected volumes.

If looking at fire response, it's not a simple yea or nay. The planners have stated that it would be at least ten years before breaking ground on any roadway expansion. I don't know how many hundreds or even thousands of new homes will have been added south of Fitch by that point but we'd both be naive to think that an additional fire station will not have been needed or even added by that point.

I feel like there are other politics at play here and these decisions are not being made in the interest of what's actually serving us as taxpayers. The fact is that the term "public safety" gets thrown around whenever City Hall needs to ram something through. Both the FD & PD chiefs only seem to be outspoken when it's regarding a city hall pet project. If this was truly a public safety issue, one would have to assume that they would be advocating for an actual fix, which this chief clearly is not doing.

This appears to be more about forcing a developer to pay for a roadway & massively impacting a neighborhood, in order to still not meet response times. All that, to avoid spending Macy's money on addressing public safety shortfalls. I have a hard time understanding how that is an appropriate solution.

So is building new fire station(s) the only alternative?
We could have the extension with fire gates, would that be acceptable?

doubledog said:

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So is building new fire stations is the only alternative?
We could have the extension with fire gates, would that be acceptable?

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Lakeway expansion with an eventual fire station added to maintain adequate response times would be my proposed solution.

The pebble creek "extension with fire gates" makes sense in theory but likely doesn't help with real world response times versus going down lakeway in actual practice. It takes more than just few seconds to stop an apparatus, use a Knox type key to unlock a lockbox/padlock/automatic opener, & then physically open the gate and continue on. Not an impossible task at all, just not really feasible when talking about a time savings issue. There are numerous bollards and gates that get opened & closed during emergency response daily and they take time to do so; on campus, into gated communities, & apartment complexes throughout town. Most of those are also automatic and not physical lock and key & they still take time. The time penalty seems to negate actual benefit in this specific case when other alternatives exist.

Lakeway has an added benefit of servicing the increased industrial development & proposed development taking place between lakeway and the Hwy 6 frontage. Those increased target hazards benefit from a lakeway extension when it comes to emergency response. This achieves the goal with minimal impact to an existing neighborhood. I would say it fits the bill as a solution. Especially with the idea of an eventual fire station near Southern Pointe as was in the original development plan for that community.

2020 said:

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doubledog said:

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So is building new fire stations is the only alternative?
We could have the extension with fire gates, would that be acceptable?

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Lakeway expansion with an eventual fire station added to maintain adequate response times would be my proposed solution.

The pebble creek "extension with fire gates" makes sense in theory but likely doesn't help with real world response times versus going down lakeway in actual practice. It takes more than just few seconds to stop an apparatus, use a Knox type key to unlock a lockbox/padlock/automatic opener, & then physically open the gate and continue on. Not an impossible task at all, just not really feasible when talking about a time savings issue. There are numerous bollards and gates that get opened & closed during emergency response daily and they take time to do so; on campus, into gated communities, & apartment complexes throughout town. Most of those are also automatic and not physical lock and key & they still take time. The time penalty seems to negate actual benefit in this specific case when other alternatives exist.

Lakeway has an added benefit of servicing the increased industrial development & proposed development taking place between lakeway and the Hwy 6 frontage. Those increased target hazards benefit from a lakeway extension when it comes to emergency response. This achieves the goal with minimal impact to an existing neighborhood. I would say it fits the bill as a solution. Especially with the idea of an eventual fire station near Southern Pointe as was in the original development plan for that community.

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Modern fire gates are opened remotely (or from the sound of the siren) as the fire truck is rolling. The fire truck does not normally even slow down. Again this is a practical solution that could be implemented within a few months since it can be pushed forward as a safety issue.

Sounds like it's all figured out then! It's a wonder that those aren't on every commercial gate around here already……or any at all for that matter. I'm sure glad we got this sorted!

ETA: in all seriousness, I don't think that's a terrible idea at all. I think that most folks were generally supportive of the initial council vote to have emergency vehicle access, but then that option somehow went away at the direction of staff. Even reading the CSAN support memo that was rescinded after city staff changed the options made that clear.

There is clearly a disconnect and distrust here between what they've said and what they appear to be doing.

2020 said:

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Sounds like it's all figured out then! It's a wonder that those aren't on every commercial gate around here already……or any at all for that matter. I'm sure glad we got this sorted!

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The fire gates are expensive and, in general, unnecessary. The fire gates are for those in Pebble Creek who do not want a public thoroughfare through their neighborhood, but do want to see to the safety of the South College Station community.

It makes no sense when the southern development is going to require its own fire station. Extending Lakeway is the best option.

A collector road in the middle of Pebble Creek with 9500+ vehicles requires 12ft lanes, two 8ft shoulders, a turn lane, and the speed target is 45-55 mph for suburban driving according to TDOT. It should be a road similar to Rock Prairie between Hwy 6 and Wellborn. That sure looks different than what a similar road in Pebble Creek would be. The most obvious is that Rock Prairie is lined with businesses.

TAMU1990 said:

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It makes no sense when the southern development is going to require its own fire station. Extending Lakeway is the best option.

A collector road in the middle of Pebble Creek with 9500+ vehicles requires 12ft lanes, two 8ft shoulders, a turn lane, and the speed target is 45-55 mph for suburban driving according to TDOT. It should be a road similar to Rock Prairie between Hwy 6 and Wellborn. That sure looks different than what a similar road in Pebble Creek would be. The most obvious is that Rock Prairie is lined with businesses.

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I agree Lakeway is a better option, however the Pebble Creek route already has what looks like a right of way the distance from Pebble Creek to Southern Point. I am not a highway planner, so I do not know the details. It may just be the overhead cables.

I keep seeing all these posts about it going up to 9500 vehicles per day. What is the current count for vehicles per day? I'm curious how much it is expected to go up from.

ElephantRider said:

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As someone living on the other side of town with no dog in the fight…Pebble Creek makes way more sense than Lakeway.

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A two lane road, and CS's only golf course community makes more sense than a four lane through a commercial district? Not worried about the kids walking to school, the golf carts that cross the road at two different spots, in playing, or maintaining, the course?
I don't live in Pebble Creek but it's a STRONG walking and biking community. Probably COCS's largest property tax community, or close to it. Staff wants the road extended so someone else will pay for the bridge that would be needed if the road is built. Circular logic at its best. Staff claimed at the P&Z meeting that the road, once extended and opened to more traffic, would increase property values and have no impact on public safety.
It's a crazy world.

lwd78 said:

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ElephantRider said:

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As someone living on the other side of town with no dog in the fight…Pebble Creek makes way more sense than Lakeway.

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A two lane road, and CS's only golf course community makes more sense than a four lane through a commercial district? Not worried about the kids walking to school, the golf carts that cross the road at two different spots, in playing, or maintaining, the course?
I don't live in Pebble Creek but it's a STRONG walking and biking community. Probably COCS's largest property tax community, or close to it. Staff wants the road extended so someone else will pay for the bridge that would be needed if the road is built. Circular logic at its best. Staff claimed at the P&Z meeting that the road, once extended and opened to more traffic, would increase property values and have no impact on public safety.
It's a crazy world.

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Don't worry! Council has the new ballfields in hand!!

doubledog said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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It makes no sense when the southern development is going to require its own fire station. Extending Lakeway is the best option.

A collector road in the middle of Pebble Creek with 9500+ vehicles requires 12ft lanes, two 8ft shoulders, a turn lane, and the speed target is 45-55 mph for suburban driving according to TDOT. It should be a road similar to Rock Prairie between Hwy 6 and Wellborn. That sure looks different than what a similar road in Pebble Creek would be. The most obvious is that Rock Prairie is lined with businesses.

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I agree Lakeway is a better option, however the Pebble Creek route already has what looks like a right of way the distance from Pebble Creek to Southern Point. I am not a highway planner, so I do not know the details. It may just be the overhead cables.

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There is no road there. It's the power lines.