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Legal ramifications against Camp Mystic

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Alta
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In reply to BrazosDog02 • 2:10p, 5/3/26
AG
Yes, it's safe to say that even if they were able to take the land where Mystic sits (which will be incredibly challenging) the judgements will be so high they will never be satisfied. Remember there are 25 currently (and potentially 27) plaintiffs. Insurance policies could be extinguished, land sold, etc. and there just is not much money there when you divide it by 25 (even before taking into account legal fees).

That's why I think it is very misguided to say the lawsuits are about money . There just is not going to be much money there at the end of the day to satisfy any judgement even if everything goes as favorably as possible for the plaintiffs.
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MAS444
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In reply to BrazosDog02 • 2:26p, 5/3/26
AG
Yes they can be forced to sell assets to cover a judgment but I doubt they have much in the way of physical assets other than the land. They could work out a payment plan but that would be up to the parties to agree to something like that.

The potential "gross negligence" coverage exclusion which is being discussed is a red herring. If the jury found "gross negligence" (which may indeed be excluded by coverage), they'd also find regular negligence (Which would be covered). That's assuming the plaintiffs lawyers wanted to keep a verdict within coverage.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to Micropterus • 2:21p, 5/4/26
AG
Micropterus said:
ttha_aggie_09 said:
I have no idea who or what and Eastland is… owner of the camp?

Is the argument being made that more lives could have been saved had she not done that? I thought this was a 100 year flood that was a terrible tragedy but wasn't aware any discussion of criminal negligence or something more nefarious was at play.

Awful tragedy regardless…


Here's the Cliff's Notes: when you have pre-adolescent/ adolescent children under your care and supervision, your first and primary concern is their well-being and safety 24 hrs/day. Shelter in place was severe negligence in this case and cost lives. Building a cabin in a flood plain is negligent as well, regardless of frequency of occurrence.


Every square inch of land is in a flood plain if it rains enough.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to dermdoc • 3:16p, 5/4/26
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dermdoc said:
Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.
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dermdoc
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In reply to TexasRebel • 3:18p, 5/4/26
AG
TexasRebel said:
dermdoc said:
Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.


I stand by my statement. We disagree. Wanting your daughters to experience something does not take away liability, lack of planning, etc. that in my opinion led to 27 preventable deaths.

And with all due respect, nobody thinks it will happen to them until it does. I have been guilty of that attitude myself. Want the experience, ain't skeered. Until it happens to you. And I pray it never does happen to you.

And Mary Grace's "experience" is gone forever. And she was a "good thing".
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Marvin_Zindler
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In reply to TexasRebel • 4:56p, 5/4/26
AG
TexasRebel said:
dermdoc said:
Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.

I will not claim to speak for them, but I get the sense that the families would be fine if Mystic re-opened in the future...and possibly even for next summer. Almost to the man, they have all said that they love summer camps and want kids to attend them. But I think Alli Naylor summed of the collective sentiment best at the hearing last week. The Eastlands have forever lost the privilege to care for anyone's children ever again.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 4:59p, 5/4/26
AG
Marvin_Zindler said:
TexasRebel said:
dermdoc said:
Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.

I will not claim to speak for them, but I get the sense that the families would be fine if Mystic re-opened in the future...and possibly even for next summer. Almost to the man, they have all said that they love summer camps and want kids to attend them. But I think Alli Naylor summed of the collective sentiment best at the hearing last week. The Eastlands have forever lost the privilege to care for anyone's children ever again.

Agree. My family loves the concept of Mystic. They also believe the Eastlands were inept, incompetent, and their lack of planning and appropriate actions resulted in 27 preventable deaths. The 2 entities need to be separated to critically assess and judge them.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 6:19p, 5/4/26
AG
On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to TexasRebel • 6:34p, 5/4/26
AG
TexasRebel said:
On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

This is a a straw poll argument you're making here.
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mpl35
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 6:37p, 5/4/26
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Chipotlemonger said:
TexasRebel said:
On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

This is a a straw poll argument you're making here.

straw POLL.
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Marvin_Zindler
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In reply to TexasRebel • 6:40p, 5/4/26
AG
TexasRebel said:
On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

Have the mistakes gotten people killed? Kinda makes a big difference.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 6:44p, 5/4/26
AG
That would be a result of surgical mistakes.
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BrazosDog02
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 6:50p, 5/4/26
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Marvin_Zindler said:
TexasRebel said:
On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

Have the mistakes gotten people killed? Kinda makes a big difference.


I think that's what these millions of dollars of pissed away money are trying to determine.
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DannyDuberstein
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6:57p, 5/4/26
AG
Camps in Texas have not been canceled. A wonderful experience and meaningful life does not require the Eastlands. The thinking that it does is quite bizarre
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cheeky
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In reply to dermdoc • 7:31p, 5/4/26
AG
dermdoc said:
MAS444 said:
I agree in theory but high risk + lots of coverage is very expensive. And many carriers won't even insure at higher levels. I've never had a case against a summer camp but have against similar type establishments (large water parka, amusement parka etc). Some that are very large and do tons of business. And often only 1 - 3 MM in coverage.

Agree. I would bet Mystic had a 2-3 million dollar umbrella policy. It will be interesting to see if the plaintiff attorneys can "Pierce the veil".

Close to zero chance, and as it should be. This is/was a high risk business. You can't insure enough to cover potential liability. Without asset protection strategies these businesses could not and would not exist.

The only money exchanged in this tragedy that will make a difference will be to the lawyers. And this is a case that the plaintiffs should win, but financial recovery to them will be minuscule in comparison. The real remedy is to punish the Eastlands beyond money, and I think that is exactly what we see happening now.
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Marvin_Zindler
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In reply to cheeky • 8:06p, 5/4/26
AG
cheeky said:
dermdoc said:
MAS444 said:
I agree in theory but high risk + lots of coverage is very expensive. And many carriers won't even insure at higher levels. I've never had a case against a summer camp but have against similar type establishments (large water parka, amusement parka etc). Some that are very large and do tons of business. And often only 1 - 3 MM in coverage.

Agree. I would bet Mystic had a 2-3 million dollar umbrella policy. It will be interesting to see if the plaintiff attorneys can "Pierce the veil".

Close to zero chance, and as it should be. This is/was a high risk business. You can't insure enough to cover potential liability. Without asset protection strategies these businesses could not and would not exist.

The only money exchanged in this tragedy that will make a difference will be to the lawyers. And this is a case that the plaintiffs should win, but financial recovery to them will be minuscule in comparison. The real remedy is to punish the Eastlands beyond money, and I think that is exactly what we see happening now.


Agree completely on the entity structure/corporate veil front.

If the Eastlands do not step away on their own, based on Senator Perry's and others' comments at the hearing last week, the legislature may be willing to do it for them. By the time the '27 camp season rolls around, the TxLeg will be in session. What's to stop them from writing a bill stating, for instance, that no person may operate a youth camp upon whose watch children previously died.

The Eastlands are in a tough spot and I think they alone control whether Mystic exists into the future.
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KaneIsAble
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In reply to TexasRebel • 8:19p, 5/4/26
AG
TexasRebel said:
dermdoc said:
Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.


Maybe this is accurate but not 1 year later. Bad take. 27 lives are deprived of life experiences and that trumps future gains of others. I struggle to understand the logic at all.
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dermdoc
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In reply to cheeky • 8:30p, 5/4/26
AG
cheeky said:
dermdoc said:
MAS444 said:
I agree in theory but high risk + lots of coverage is very expensive. And many carriers won't even insure at higher levels. I've never had a case against a summer camp but have against similar type establishments (large water parka, amusement parka etc). Some that are very large and do tons of business. And often only 1 - 3 MM in coverage.

Agree. I would bet Mystic had a 2-3 million dollar umbrella policy. It will be interesting to see if the plaintiff attorneys can "Pierce the veil".

Close to zero chance, and as it should be. This is/was a high risk business. You can't insure enough to cover potential liability. Without asset protection strategies these businesses could not and would not exist.

The only money exchanged in this tragedy that will make a difference will be to the lawyers. And this is a case that the plaintiffs should win, but financial recovery to them will be minuscule in comparison. The real remedy is to punish the Eastlands beyond money, and I think that is exactly what we see happening now.


Agree. If the Eastlands are gone, I believe the plaintiffs will be okay. No matter the financial settlement. And camps will be safer without their involvement.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 8:33p, 5/4/26
AG
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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