Zobel said:

---

I don't think so.

My question comes back to - what is the difference between Judah and Israel?

This passage provides perfect exegesis for how God is accomplishing the restoration of Israel and Judah as foretold multiple times in the prophets. As far as I know it's not explained anywhere else in the NT but the effects of this being accomplished are (pagans being referred to as part of Israel, tribes restored in Revelation).

---

Who else has held this view of Rom. 11:26?

Probably a lot of people.

Here's a good podcast about it
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/wholecounsel/romans_chapter_11/

Zobel said:

---

Probably a lot of people.

Here's a good podcast about it
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/wholecounsel/romans_chapter_11/

---

I mean other than recently. I would be wary of a "new" interpretation of Romans if there is no patristic support.

it isn't new. it's in the hymnody of the church, and it is in the prophets, and in genesis.

look at it this way:
- the phrase the fullness of nations and through you israel will be blessed is used to describe ephraim (the largest tribe in the northern kingdom)
- israel and judah split and aren't the same thing
- israel and the nine/ten tribes there are scattered by the assyrians
- israel has been gone for 700+ years by the time St Paul writes
- the prophets foretell that the scattered of israel will be gathered from among the nations in numerous places
- the Messiah is going to be the one that does that

all of that is fact, i hope we can agree?

the only disagreement seems to be that when St Paul refers to
- the fullness of the gentiles (direct quote)
- prophetic passages about israel and judah being reunited (direct quotes)
- gentiles coming to faith in the God of israel
- gentiles being grafted in to israel
- and therefore all israel being saved in a great mystery

i say he's talking about all of that in the old testament. what do you think he's talking about?

Zobel said:

---

it isn't new. it's in the hymnody of the church, and it is in the prophets, and in genesis.

---

That the "in this way all Israel will be saved " in Rom. 11:26 refers to what you say it does? Can you provide quotes?

i don't understand your question. i don't even understand what the counter argument or objection is

Zobel said:

---

i don't understand your question. i don't even understand what the counter argument or objection is

---

https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/3571480/replies/71208655

Is there any patristic support of this interpretation of Rom. 11:26? You say the interpretation is not new. Can you provide quotes demonstrating it's old? We've already established it's not in Chrysostom's homilies on Romans. And you're not able to find support from the other writers you quoted because they're not directly available.

i'm sorry but i still don't understand. what are you asking me to pull from the hymns of the church? that israel was scattered? that the gentiles will be gathered to the church? that the church is israel? that Jesus is the Messiah (and therefore fulfills the prophecies about the Messiah)?

the church doesn't have hymns that say "here's how to understand romans 11:26"

Doesn't have to be a hymn. You posted a podcast from 2024 which I assume who you learned this from. Where did he learn it from?

that's not, but it echoed what i was taught at church. i suspect Fr Stephen learned at seminary. maybe you could ask him?

what is your alternative explanation? it seems to me like you've played a rhetorical game where you force a tight definition of St Paul's use of the word "Israel" in Romans 9:6, then want to constrain all uses of "Israel" in Romans 11 to that.

you haven't actually engaged with anything ive said, disagreed with anything, or really even added anything substantive to the discussion.

perhaps you can answer one of the questions ive asked? or if not, it seems there's not much more to say here

I'll take that as you don't know. Again, I would be wary of a "new" interpretation of Romans if it can't be found anywhere in history, even though it sounds interesting and just "makes sense".

it isn't new. i'll take it as you don't have anything to discuss, and we can call it good.

Quote:

---

it isn't new.

---

I've never heard it (wrt Rom. 11:26) until you mentioned it.

Zobel said:

---

oh, man, well if you've never heard it..!

---

I'm not doubting you. I've asked for quotes. You mentioned a verse-by-verse commentary reference. Is it in there?

btw...it's ok to admit it's new. We Protestants love new stuff.