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Death spiral of Hollywood

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schmendeler
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9:26a, 4/3/26
AG
I think political correctness is a way for people to ignore the fact that culture and taste evolves.

We don't have black face any more. Is that political correctness? Or has society decided it's no longer funny? I guarantee there were people lamenting PC run amok when that was eliminated.

Sure there has been movements to increase diversity and perspectives that aren't the typical straight white male orientation, but that is something we've mostly seen in big budget films where they are trying to grab as much market share as possible.

I think one of the problems with comedies is that there are no big name draws in comedy at the moment. Will Farrell was the one everyone wanted to see. Seems like he's reduced his level of activity.
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YouBet
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In reply to schmendeler • 9:35a, 4/3/26
AG
schmendeler said:
I think political correctness is a way for people to ignore the fact that culture and taste evolves.

We don't have black face any more. Is that political correctness? Or has society decided it's no longer funny? I guarantee there were people lamenting PC run amok when that was eliminated.

Sure there has been movements to increase diversity and perspectives that aren't the typical straight white male orientation, but that is something we've mostly seen in big budget films where they are trying to grab as much market share as possible.

I think one of the problems with comedies is that there are no big name draws in comedy at the moment. Will Farrell was the one everyone wanted to see. Seems like he's reduced his level of activity.


Blatant, mean-spirited racism aside, I wouldn't call it "evolution" where we all can't laugh at one another or dark comedy becomes verboten because feelings get hurt.
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javajaws
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In reply to schmendeler • 9:38a, 4/3/26
AG
schmendeler said:

From that same article:

Quote:
But 2026 is not expected to get anywhere near the $11 billion-plus totals the domestic box office posted before the pandemic, thanks to a mix of fewer films being released and changing audience habits. The year's quarterly total is down 27% from the $2.41 billion posted in the first three months of 2019.


And I don't even believe this is taking into account inflation. So these current numbers are even worse than they appear (given the high inflation the last few years).
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javajaws
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9:47a, 4/3/26
AG
While I think DEI has some part in this problem, I think it's probably a relatively small part. Somebody mentioned "big budget" comedies earlier. And, well, that is perhaps part of the problem - why does a comedy need to be "big budget"? Because of the high costs of making movies in Hollywood, that's why.

Liberal leaning Hollywood loves their unions and high taxes but eventually you have to pay the piper. Unions are great for job security, but terrible for long term growth. And high taxes are great for the social benefits they give out, but terrible for growth as well. Economics don't lie.

When such fundamental yet avoidable issues exist you open yourself up for competition - both foreign and domestic. Hollywood needs to figure out how to get their costs down. I guarantee you the unions won't give up, so I expect eventually for Hollywood execs to look to use AI in various ways more and more. If they don't, someone else will.

Of course, you can't change a market that doesn't exist either - changing trends like streaming, home theaters, other entertainment options, etc all play a part as well and Hollywood may never get back to its height like it was pre-Covid (at least as a percentage of overall entertainment spending).
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 9:49a, 4/3/26
AG
maroon barchetta said:
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
There are plenty of titles that would be unlikely to be made as they were.

Blazing Saddles
National Lampoon's Animal House
Caddyshack
Airplane!
Stripes
Porky's
Revenge of the Nerds
Coming to America
Ace Ventura
There's Something About Mary
South Park movie
Old School
Wedding Crashers
Tropic Thunder
Superbad


Could someone remake Fast Times at Ridgemont High without major changes?

Lots of drug use/mentions

Masturbation

Abortion

A fair amount of nudity and teen sex

Underage sex (Stacy was what, 15 when she went to The Point with the stereo sales guy?)
Forgot about that one.
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One Louder
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10:24a, 4/3/26
AG
The 40 Year Old Virgin couldn't be made today without removing several scenes.
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fig96
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 1:03p, 4/3/26
AG
maroon barchetta said:
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
There are plenty of titles that would be unlikely to be made as they were.

Blazing Saddles
National Lampoon's Animal House
Caddyshack
Airplane!
Stripes
Porky's
Revenge of the Nerds
Coming to America
Ace Ventura
There's Something About Mary
South Park movie
Old School
Wedding Crashers
Tropic Thunder
Superbad


Could someone remake Fast Times at Ridgemont High without major changes?

Lots of drug use/mentions

Masturbation

Abortion

A fair amount of nudity and teen sex

Underage sex (Stacy was what, 15 when she went to The Point with the stereo sales guy?)

Um have you seen Euphoria?
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1981 Monte Carlo
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In reply to Backyard Gator • 1:04p, 4/3/26
Backyard Gator said:
I don't think you can make The Hangover (which came out in 2009) or its sequels today. I can't even write "Paging Dr. Fa--ot" on this board because it is seen as too offensive.

Yep, I was thinking about this recently. Quite a few movies that were made in the earlier 2000's absolutely could not be made today.
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to fig96 • 1:07p, 4/3/26
fig96 said:
maroon barchetta said:
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
There are plenty of titles that would be unlikely to be made as they were.

Blazing Saddles
National Lampoon's Animal House
Caddyshack
Airplane!
Stripes
Porky's
Revenge of the Nerds
Coming to America
Ace Ventura
There's Something About Mary
South Park movie
Old School
Wedding Crashers
Tropic Thunder
Superbad


Could someone remake Fast Times at Ridgemont High without major changes?

Lots of drug use/mentions

Masturbation

Abortion

A fair amount of nudity and teen sex

Underage sex (Stacy was what, 15 when she went to The Point with the stereo sales guy?)

Um have you seen Euphoria?


No

Should I?
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fig96
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1:08p, 4/3/26
AG
The answer to all this is a lot simpler than most people think, and as mentioned DEI is a minor effect (though I will agree that we've seen an impact on comedy there).

It's gotten insanely expensive to make movies in Hollywood and execs are highly risk averse. When budgets are high and people don't want to take risks you get recycled ideas and things designed to appeal to everyone and offend no one, and that makes for a boring product that no one is excited about.

Movies tend to fall into two categories now, either insanely expensive or very budget friendly, and the insanely expensive ones that get all the hype aren't generally the ones that take risks and do interesting things.

There's a reason that horror is the genre you tend to see the biggest sleeper hits from, those films can be made on low budgets and try all crazy ideas. A lot of them miss, but when they hit they can hit big.
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fig96
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 1:09p, 4/3/26
AG
maroon barchetta said:
fig96 said:
maroon barchetta said:
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
There are plenty of titles that would be unlikely to be made as they were.

Blazing Saddles
National Lampoon's Animal House
Caddyshack
Airplane!
Stripes
Porky's
Revenge of the Nerds
Coming to America
Ace Ventura
There's Something About Mary
South Park movie
Old School
Wedding Crashers
Tropic Thunder
Superbad


Could someone remake Fast Times at Ridgemont High without major changes?

Lots of drug use/mentions

Masturbation

Abortion

A fair amount of nudity and teen sex

Underage sex (Stacy was what, 15 when she went to The Point with the stereo sales guy?)

Um have you seen Euphoria?


No

Should I?

It's an interesting show, though not for everyone, but it makes Fast Times look like Happy Days.
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Lathspell
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 1:39p, 4/3/26
AG
You are misrepresenting my full opinion. Again, you are either arguing in bad faith or lack the ability to understand nuance.

My example of how wokeness and DEI can destroy the artistic process actually has nothing to do with what can or cannot be made, today. That is an argument we can have, but mine is an argument as to how the culture around Hollywood, perpetrated from a leftist mindset, directly stifles the creative process. I believe this is felt more heavily in comedy, but we see the results of this in the shear number of ****ty movies and shows that utterly fail due to rejection from normal people.

My point incorporates comedies that, though may not seem glaringly woke, still completely suck because they just aren't funny. Why aren't they funny? Because the creative process for writing and making comedies has been stifled by all the woke and DEI bull**** these creators have to deal with, behind the scenes.

I may be more politically minded than the average consumer, but the large amount of data we have is based on the response of average Americans.

ETA: Also, my opinions are not black and white. There is always nuance. Take a show like One Piece. Highly successful. I love it. Why is a show that is so off the wall whacky so popular? It is literally an anime brought to live action. But it has succeeded because the original creator maintained full control to hold the studio to his true vision. He has the rights to veto their suggestions, allowing him to tell the story he spent his whole life creating. Now, I've heard there are people who didn't like a few castings due to race swaps. But even in a race swap, my question is whether it makes sense in the story/world and whether it requires the creators to change the story. From what i've seen, that hasn't been the case at all (the only one i'm actually aware of is Vivi).
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Lathspell
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 1:53p, 4/3/26
AG
AgGrad99 said:
Now, that doesn't solve the problem Hollywood has, trying to attract filming back to their area, rather than other locations...but it would help with the crowds on Friday night.

This is definitely an issue that I believe is less influenced by the woke/DEI stuff. This is a simple matter of California making it too expensive through it's far left legislation. This is what you get with a complete super-majority in all parts of government. It's not good in either political direction.
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Belton Ag
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In reply to fig96 • 1:55p, 4/3/26
AG
I haven't seen Euphoria but it doesn't strike me as being in the same vein as what the others were probably referring to. I think what they're talking about is the gratuitous female nudity that would be put in mainstream movies at the time. Movies like Porky's or Revenge of the Nerds aren't made today, at least by major studios. I don't personally feel that's a product of DEI or whatever, more like a recognition in Hollywood that female exploitation isn't something they want to depict like they used to. Especially in the wake of the Weinstein fiasco.
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fig96
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In reply to Lathspell • 2:44p, 4/3/26
AG
Lathspell said:
You are misrepresenting my full opinion. Again, you are either arguing in bad faith or lack the ability to understand nuance.

My example of how wokeness and DEI can destroy the artistic process actually has nothing to do with what can or cannot be made, today. That is an argument we can have, but mine is an argument as to how the culture around Hollywood, perpetrated from a leftist mindset, directly stifles the creative process. I believe this is felt more heavily in comedy, but we see the results of this in the shear number of ****ty movies and shows that utterly fail due to rejection from normal people.

I feel like this is case of diagnosing a symptom as the problem.

Are there times where creators go too far on "wokeness"? Sure, but the number of shows and movies that people don't see because of that reason is in the minority. (And I do think there's a discussion to be had about political correctness in comedy that's not DEI per se but definitely tangential.)

The shows and movies that people don't watch that "utterly fail" generally do so because they're just not good, and that's probably a decent majority of content out there. It has no personality, point of view, or hook that makes it compelling to watch.

I also think that your political bias is showing here, most creatives lean left and the good ones have views that inform their work like any good artist. Whether you like where they're coming from has nothing to do with whether it "stifles the creative process".

Now again, can that go too far? Sure, if they prioritize politicizing above story that rarely works. But take something like Blue Eye Samurai. It's by any definition extremely "woke", centered around themes of gender roles, sexuality, and race. But it's executed exceptionally well and pretty universally praised.

If a less skilled creator tried to do the same thing, they might fail miserably. But that doesn't mean their goals were any different.
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fig96
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In reply to Belton Ag • 2:46p, 4/3/26
AG
Fair, I just feel a lot of people think you can't show things that a lot of other movies/shows are showing, maybe just not in the same gratuitous ways.

Interesting point on Weinstein and general attitudes towards exploitation, I'd agree that's part of what's driving it and I don't think that's a bad thing.
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schmendeler
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2:48p, 4/3/26
AG
Once again, i think people want to rage about cancel culture when it's might simply be that culture has changed. The things the complainers insist are funny are no longer funny to a large portion of the population so they don't have tens of millions of dollars invested on them.
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Proposition Joe
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2:59p, 4/3/26
But shouldn't movies like White Chicks be timeless!?
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Cliff.Booth
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3:13p, 4/3/26
Culture hasn't changed that much, but it would be impossible to know if you never hear the stories and jokes normal Americans tell when they're not afraid of being fired or canceled for it.

Studios cleansing themselves of people who warn them what the "modern audience" might be turned off by will be a huge step in the right direction.
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schmendeler
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3:18p, 4/3/26
AG
Honestly i think it might be the right that would scandalized if ideas of propriety were abandoned in comedy.

Charlie Kirk jokes abound with the kids. Trump is a punchline. Even 9/11 is fair game.
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to schmendeler • 3:45p, 4/3/26
schmendeler said:
Honestly i think it might be the right that would scandalized if ideas of propriety were abandoned in comedy.

Charlie Kirk jokes abound with the kids. Trump is a punchline. Even 9/11 is fair game.


Yeah. Because nothing is more funny than a guy getting shot in the neck in front of his wife and kids.
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FL_Ag1998
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3:45p, 4/3/26
AG
The rise of comedians like Shane Gillis and even female comedians like Taylor Tomlinson (who can be pretty off-color with her jokes) show that our culture hasn't changed to the point where people are suddenly shocked by "dirty" or non-PC jokes and don't find them funny anymore. Hollywood didn't turn away from that type of comedy because the public somehow grew out of that. Hollywood execs turned away from that type of comedy because they were cowed by the woke uprising and afraid of falling out of the graces of the woke vocal minority who were bullying their way across America.

People have always, and will always, want to let their hair down and laugh at the things in life that we've been told shouldn't be discussed in public. We want to laugh at ourselves - at how dumb, crude, etc. we can be. But it is a simple fact that a very vocal minority in the U.S. has spent the past 5-10 years trying to push their idea of what should be allowed, and since the Hollywood execs are gutless, they got their way. Comedy movies suffered because of that.

But I think we might be turning a corner and pushing past the woke police in our entertainment.
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schmendeler
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 3:47p, 4/3/26
AG
maroon barchetta said:
schmendeler said:
Honestly i think it might be the right that would scandalized if ideas of propriety were abandoned in comedy.

Charlie Kirk jokes abound with the kids. Trump is a punchline. Even 9/11 is fair game.


Yeah. Because nothing is more funny than a guy getting shot in the neck in front of his wife and kids.


Comedy police in the house
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Heineken-Ashi
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In reply to schmendeler • 3:54p, 4/3/26
schmendeler said:
Honestly i think it might be the right that would scandalized if ideas of propriety were abandoned in comedy.

Charlie Kirk jokes abound with the kids. Trump is a punchline. Even 9/11 is fair game.


Thanks Jimmy Kimmel
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Belton Ag
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In reply to schmendeler • 3:56p, 4/3/26
AG
This is just moronic. People in this thread are lamenting that the Michael Scott character couldn't be replicated in this climate, and you're saying the equivalent of that is jokes about Charlie Kirk's murder? The **** is wrong with you?

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PatAg
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 3:57p, 4/3/26
AG
maroon barchetta said:
schmendeler said:
Honestly i think it might be the right that would scandalized if ideas of propriety were abandoned in comedy.

Charlie Kirk jokes abound with the kids. Trump is a punchline. Even 9/11 is fair game.


Yeah. Because nothing is more funny than a guy getting shot in the neck in front of his wife and kids.

you just proved his point,
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DannyDuberstein
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4:03p, 4/3/26
AG
You have to have your head so far up your ass that we'd need Pete Buttigeig piloting a SpaceX rocket to find it if you don't think the creative process has been stifled by woke-ism over the last decade. Clearly it has.
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schmendeler
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In reply to Belton Ag • 4:11p, 4/3/26
AG
Belton Ag said:
This is just moronic. People in this thread are lamenting that the Michael Scott character couldn't be replicated in this climate, and you're saying the equivalent of that is jokes about Charlie Kirk's murder? The **** is wrong with you?



"I wouldn't call it "evolution" where we all can't laugh at one another or dark comedy becomes verboten because feelings get hurt."

This statement received 10 likes.

Are we actually good with dark comedy being verboten?
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Belton Ag
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In reply to schmendeler • 4:19p, 4/3/26
AG
schmendeler said:
Belton Ag said:
This is just moronic. People in this thread are lamenting that the Michael Scott character couldn't be replicated in this climate, and you're saying the equivalent of that is jokes about Charlie Kirk's murder? The **** is wrong with you?



"I wouldn't call it "evolution" where we all can't laugh at one another or dark comedy becomes verboten because feelings get hurt."

This statement received 10 likes.

Are we actually good with dark comedy being verboten?


Why didn't you quote the entire post?
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schmendeler
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In reply to Belton Ag • 4:24p, 4/3/26
AG
Belton Ag said:
schmendeler said:
Belton Ag said:
This is just moronic. People in this thread are lamenting that the Michael Scott character couldn't be replicated in this climate, and you're saying the equivalent of that is jokes about Charlie Kirk's murder? The **** is wrong with you?



"I wouldn't call it "evolution" where we all can't laugh at one another or dark comedy becomes verboten because feelings get hurt."

This statement received 10 likes.

Are we actually good with dark comedy being verboten?


Why didn't you quote the entire post?


Because it was irrelevant
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CharleyKerfeld
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4:26p, 4/3/26
You have to think some comedians and execs are terrified of the cancel culture movie that could come from putting out a comedy with anything viewed as off limits.

My ex-wife wanted to be upset when Peter Rabbit made fun of food allergies, even while winking and nodding to the audience that they were aware it was a real thing.

There's a reason that all-time classics like "There's Something About Mary" are rarely on TV, because there's an entire plot line of a mentally handicapped character in it, who Matt Dillon calls a "******", and who is played by an actor who isn't mentally handicapped. If that movie came out today, there would be 20 billion hateful tweets about it 24 hours after the movie opened, the studio would have to apologize, and Matt Dillon would never work again.

In a couple of different interviews in the last decade, Judd Apatow has shared thoughts on the subject of studios wanting "sure things" with the whole package of the IP, the director, and the star all in one, instead of just taking random scripts and making them into movies, as well as the idea that there is no longer the "long tail" revenue available through sales of physical media which would convince a studio to take more of a risk on a comedy that could do well after leaving theaters.

For instance, the original Austin Powers made $53 million at the box office, but more than $100 million in VHS/DVD sales.
Likewise, Napoleon Dynamite made 44 million at the box office, and $120 million in DVD sales.


Now either of those films would be release to a streaming platform, I'm sure get some kind of deal based on streams, but no way that deal was going to make more than it would in physical media sales.
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schmendeler
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In reply to javajaws • 4:27p, 4/3/26
AG
javajaws said:
schmendeler said:

From that same article:

Quote:
But 2026 is not expected to get anywhere near the $11 billion-plus totals the domestic box office posted before the pandemic, thanks to a mix of fewer films being released and changing audience habits. The year's quarterly total is down 27% from the $2.41 billion posted in the first three months of 2019.


And I don't even believe this is taking into account inflation. So these current numbers are even worse than they appear (given the high inflation the last few years).


I would imagine a death spiral wouldn't require inflation adjustment for a period of ~5 years.
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Belton Ag
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In reply to schmendeler • 5:36p, 4/3/26
AG
schmendeler said:
Belton Ag said:
schmendeler said:
Belton Ag said:
This is just moronic. People in this thread are lamenting that the Michael Scott character couldn't be replicated in this climate, and you're saying the equivalent of that is jokes about Charlie Kirk's murder? The **** is wrong with you?



"I wouldn't call it "evolution" where we all can't laugh at one another or dark comedy becomes verboten because feelings get hurt."

This statement received 10 likes.

Are we actually good with dark comedy being verboten?


Why didn't you quote the entire post?


Because it was irrelevant

I guess if, in one's mind, using blackface to mock black people at a time when black people suffered political oppression ("blatant mean-spirited racism") and laughing at the absurdity of Michael Scott in the workplace is the same thing, then it probably would be irrelevant. In a sane world, they're not the same, and most sane people would view things like blackface, Kirk's murder, jokes about 9/11, etc. all in the same bucket, one that will be verboten in the mainstream. Especially so for "Hollywood." I just don't agree with your overall point that relegating Michael Scott (or Blazing Saddles) into that bucket is part of our evolution. I think it's just a massive overswing of the pendulum in the opposite direction.
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1981 Monte Carlo
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In reply to schmendeler • 10:53p, 4/3/26
schmendeler said:
I think political correctness is a way for people to ignore the fact that culture and taste evolves.

We don't have black face any more. Is that political correctness? Or has society decided it's no longer funny? I guarantee there were people lamenting PC run amok when that was eliminated.

Sure there has been movements to increase diversity and perspectives that aren't the typical straight white male orientation, but that is something we've mostly seen in big budget films where they are trying to grab as much market share as possible.

I think one of the problems with comedies is that there are no big name draws in comedy at the moment. Will Farrell was the one everyone wanted to see. Seems like he's reduced his level of activity.


Some of society has just decided that it is extremely forbidden, even though it can be funny as hell. The same whites who think voter id laws are racist because blacks are too incompetent or underprivileged to get ID like everyone else, think black face is always inherently evil and racist.

I guarantee there are some white or Asian or Latino comics who could make some insanely funny sketches in black face. And blacks have done some amazing skits in white face. But we are pvssies now so can't do a lot of the fun edgy stuff anymore.

Although Tropic Thunder found a pretty genius loophole.
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LB12Diamond
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 4:13a, 4/4/26
AG
Or never watch the critical drinker.
Gig ‘Em Baby!
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