quote:

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Perhaps to you.

---

And to the majority of everyone else in here.

Yes OverR, Class of 1969, and second generation. My father started at A&M in 1942 but unfortunately was interrupted by a little dust-up in Europe and finished Class of '49. Your class?

You think it is all about a female cadet in the band. It's not - it's about the boots, which are part of a uniform. It is a senior privilege to wear them, but it is a responsibility to wear them, and the entire uniform properly, i.e. according to the Standard. It isn't a fashion show.

Your opinion is uninformed precisely because you have no idea what those boots mean to anybody who wears or has worn them. You haven't been there and apparently never will be.

I knew two guys who spent their 4 years in the Corps and never had boots because they couldn't afford them, even at the price they were 40 years ago. Neither would ever have used them as a fashion statement, which is what is happening here with personalized, marbled and antiqued boots.






[This message has been edited by JR69 (edited 10/25/2010 8:43p).]

quote:

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Why is mine any more or less uninformed than yours?

Considering that I have actually seen the young lady on campus and told her to keep her head up personally, while yall went on this wonderful little discussion. I would argue that mine would be more informed. Especially considering that my argument has never been anything but one that I was not offeneded by it, and perhaps you should all remember they were earned by her.

She is the factor in this that you guys seem to forget. I, on the other hand, have not.

---

This is why your opinion basically means nothing. You are far from informed. It really means nothing that you've spoken to her on campus. You have no idea what is going on, you have no idea what it means to be part of a military unit, you have no idea what it means to wear a uniform.

It is not about whether or not you were offended.
It is not about whether or not we were offended.
It is not about how wonderful this young lady may or may not be.
It is not about her pride.
It is not about her "holding up her head".
It is not about her having earned her boots, as thousands have before.
It is not about any of the touchy-feely crap you posted above.


It is about the fact that she chose to be part of something bigger than herself.

It is about the fact that she chose to wear the uniform and the boots.

It is about the fact that she is a very visible representative of the Aggie Band, the Corps of Cadets, and Texas A&M University.

As such, you suborn your tastes and desires to those called for in the regulations. You don't try to call attention to yourself, you don't wear unauthorized uniforms, and you fit in so that the Aggie Band as a whole looks good, not you, and the only way your momma can find you is she knows you're the 5th one from the front on the left.

Good lord, man, are you out of your mind?

One suspects that if A&M had a typical Tech or t.u. style show band, you'd be one of the first to hit TexAgs and b***h if a senior band member decided they had earned the right to wear a different color uniform from the rest of the band geeks.



[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 10/25/2010 9:03p).]

Well said CanyonAg - you have far more patience than I.

Canyon

CanyonAg77

CanyonAg77--excellent job.

Wow, you folks have truly let some since of nostalgia or senility get in the way of your train of thought.

Congratulations on you all being able to hide behind some anonymous handle and bash a current student.

I dare any one of you to walk up to her and condemn her for her "fashion statement".

Why your at it drop by and visit JJ and tell him that he is losing games because he clearly has some sort of mental issue.

If this were a Tech or a t.u. band and they broke it down to Michael Jackson then I would be upset right there with all of you, and would slimply go piss during halftime like the rest of the world.

That is not the case. The one visible thing on her uniform, that truly represents her work and dedication are her boots(at least visible from the stands). She can do whatever she likes with them as could your buddies that never bought them.

She in no way cheapened the thrill I get every time they walk on to the field. If this is the straw that broke the camel's back on your enjoyment of them then so be it as i cannot help you there.

Edit to add: I guess it all comes down to worldview Id rather encourage a young person to do whatever they can to the best of their ability.
This website tends to bring them down and belittle them in any way they can.


Boom outta the park!
E-high five!
Were so cool cause we can agree with everyone else on bashing someone!!!

[This message has been edited by OverR (edited 10/25/2010 11:48p).]

You still don't get it.

Perhaps I never will. Honestly though whatever I don't "get" I don't think I want.

quote:

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I dare any one of you to walk up to her and condemn her for her "fashion statement".

---

Actually, if I showed up to tell her she was out of regs and she mouthed off to me, things would get bad for her very quickly...as it would if many of these posters (who are currently serving) did.

Obviously, I'm not going to go out of my way to fly to College Station from Ft. Bragg to do so, but you get the point.

[This message has been edited by CGSC Lobotomy (edited 10/26/2010 5:52a).]

quote:

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Perhaps I never will. Honestly though whatever I don't "get" I don't think I want.

---

I dare you to try the following:

-Wear a tan beret without a scroll on your left shoulder

-Wear a green beret without the SF tab

-Wear a maroon beret on Ft. Bragg without an airborne scroll on your left shoulder

Unauthorized is unauthorized.

quote:

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...but you get the point.

---

From his last post, I doubt it, or that he ever will.

Actually, I think this thread would have died a natural death if it hadn't been for the young knight in shining armor and his inane defense of flouting the regs.



[This message has been edited by JR69 (edited 10/26/2010 6:27a).]

quote:

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Wow, you folks have truly let some since of nostalgia or senility get in the way of your train of thought.

Can't argue the point, so you bash the other posters.

Congratulations on you all being able to hide behind some anonymous handle and bash a current student.

It's really not that hard to figure out who I am. Not a lot of us Ags here in Canyon.

And why do you keep saying "bash"? She's wrong, we're pointing it out. We have not impugned her integrity, intelligence or work ethic. The only one I've noticed who is demeaning her is the one commenting on and judging her only by her looks. And that would be......???

I dare any one of you to walk up to her and condemn her for her "fashion statement".

Correction =/= condemn.

Why your at it drop by and visit JJ and tell him that he is losing games because he clearly has some sort of mental issue.

I don't know why JJ is losing games. I know when a cadet uniform is wrong.

If this were a Tech or a t.u. band and they broke it down to Michael Jackson then I would be upset right there with all of you, and would slimply go piss during halftime like the rest of the world.

So you are agreeing that the Aggie Band is different and thus is held to a higher standard.

That is not the case. The one visible thing on her uniform, that truly represents her work and dedication are her boots(at least visible from the stands).

No, the fact that she is out there doing the halftime drill in a correct and sharp manner is what shows her work and dedication.

She can do whatever she likes with them

No, she cannot. If she chooses to wear them as a part of the uniform as she is representing the University, there is a requirement that she wear them a certain way. Beyond that and when she graduates, she can polish them fuchsia for all we care.

as could your buddies that never bought them.

There's a non sequitur

She in no way cheapened the thrill I get every time they walk on to the field.

The thrill comes from the overall appearance and discipline of the Band. Part of that is uniform appearance. You are simply pretending that this is not the case, because you want to win an Internet argument.

If this is the straw that broke the camel's back on your enjoyment of them then so be it as i cannot help you there.

Straw man, no one said it ruined our enjoyment.

Edit to add: I guess it all comes down to worldview Id rather encourage a young person to do whatever they can to the best of their ability.

This website tends to bring them down and belittle them in any way they can.

We are encouraging them to be the best they can. Being the best means holding them to a standard and expecting them to meet it.

It does not involve letting folks do whatever they wish and patting them on the head when they do wrong and say "that's okay, you've earned it, you're special.

Were so cool cause we can agree with everyone else on bashing someone!!!

Shooting the messenger again, I see

---

[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 10/26/2010 6:37a).]

Dang CanyonAg - two home runs in the same game!

More like the same inning.

Per Unitatem Vis

Per Diversitas Imbecillitate

The statement she is making with her eccentric boots is non-uniformity. Aside from the contradiction that poses to military tradition in general it is directly in conflict with the motto of the A&M Corps of Cadets. Seniors get many privileges but standing out like a sore thumb because of non-standard uniforms isn't one of them. Inasmuch as judgment is one of the leadership traits those boots are an affront to sound judgment. I'm not saying she's a bad cadet or badd Aggie but I share the general opinion that the color of those boots are a distraction from the unity of the organization whether it's BQs or a CT formation in which they are worn.

OverR is so in over his head it's comical.



[This message has been edited by Wildmen03 (edited 10/26/2010 7:51a).]

So OverR has never been in the Corps, has no idea what it takes to earn our boots, but wants some girl to colour them whatever she wants because he thinks she's cute?

He's trying to get a date? (Have to point out here that despite stalking her on campus and finally working up the balls to talk to her, he has made no mention of actually getting a date.)

WTFO?!

Nav. Your assumptions are completly wrong. I have seen her twice ever. Once being while she was on the field. I don't give a flying **** about a date. I am in a perfectly fine relationship. I'm posting from my cell phone now so I'm not going to go through the trouble of quoting, but if you jump to the top of this thread you will see where I posted something along the lines of even though some may disagree with it we are all still proud of you and what you have accomplished. I was told to speak for myself. From that point on anyone of you who jumped on the bandwagon. Your welcome to fall into the category that I was not speaking for. Keep your bull**** because I believe you have forgotten what's really important.

quote:

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Keep your bull**** because I believe you have forgotten what's really important.

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The image of the whole is more important than the fashion desire of one.

And okay, so my second line is wrong. But you just reinforced that my first line is completely correct.

[This message has been edited by Naveronski (edited 10/26/2010 9:30a).]

quote:

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He's trying to get a date?

---

quote:

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Nav. Your assumptions are completly wrong. I have seen her twice ever. Once being while she was on the field. I don't give a flying **** about a date. I am in a perfectly fine relationship.

---

But his earlier posts say...

quote:

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You were cute though!

Ill be your date in the stands and wear my gumby suit for added effect if your interested.

Gig 'Em boot girl. We are all proud of you.

It was nice to see there is a cute corps girl.

---

Then Nav said

quote:

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OverR, quit trying to get a date.

---

To which, OverR replied

quote:

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I wouldn't mind one.

But im sure a hardworking and dedicated young lady like that is quite out of my league.

I have actually seen the young lady on campus and told her to keep her head up personally

She is the factor in this that you guys seem to forget. I, on the other hand, have not.

---

Gee, why would we get the "mistaken" idea that OverR is stalking this young lady?

Maybe all of us should take a step back here.

Lets see again where "my" side vs "your" side originated from.

My first post.

quote:

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You were cute though!

Ill be your date in the stands and wear my gumby suit for added effect if your interested.

---

This is my last comment on this subject, but if anyone thinks the "date" bit was anything more than jest you must be an engineer. Learn some sarcasm.

Edit to add: It was my last comment until I replied and read Canyon's post clearly I needed at least one more.

The next post on the thread which is also mine.

quote:

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Maybe this needs a serious post rather than just my normal bs. They are her boots. She is a senior in the corps, the FTAB, and TAMU. That is three accomplishments that she has EARNED. If she wants to polish those boots till they are black as my lungs she can do it. She earned them, not you guys.

Gig 'Em boot girl. We are all proud of you.

---

My opinion. I will come back to the part in bold.

Following this there was some banter back and forth.

Their ugly.
Their hers and who cares what color they are.
Their ugly.
Old army vs. New army
Repeat.

I understand that there would be a little bit of a disconnect there.

Here is where I got ticked off.

JR69

quote:

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quote We are all proud of you. quote

Feel free to speak only for yourself.....

---

I respond, perhaps a bit too harshly, with.

quote:

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Ill speak for other folks here as well JR69.

You, are an ass.

Being upset with her boots and not being proud of a successful Aggie are two different things.

Way to lift a fellow Ag up.

---

Then y'all bounce around the date crap again and the D&C vs contract discussion until another poster pops in.

This thread has not been about the boots in a long time.

In my mind its about some Old Ags being seriously harsh on a young one.

If you disagree with the boot polish, fine. But the tangents out to anything else got out of hand.

Again, I think some of you have your priorities really screwed up.

[This message has been edited by OverR (edited 10/26/2010 10:01a).]

Canyon, you seriously had some respectable comments until that one.

Noticing her once on a field then, on about day two of this thread, noticing the boots on the bus and stopping to give her some encouraging words does not constitute stalking. I do not even know the chicks name.

Thats enough of that derailment.



[This message has been edited by OverR (edited 10/26/2010 10:04a).]

quote:

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Canyon, you seriously had some respectable comments until that one.

Noticing her once on a field then, on about day two of this thread, noticing the boots on the bus and stopping to give her some encouraging words does not constitute stalking. I do not even know the chicks name.

Thats enough of that derailment.

---

OverR,

Regarding the dating discussion, your sense of humor needs recalibrating. And admit it, all of your quoted statements indicate a high level of focus on her appearance and your reaction to it.

And in regard to

quote:

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In my mind its about some Old Ags being seriously harsh on a young one.

---

This is where you do not get it. You are the one reacting, not her. If she has survived 3+ years in the Corps, she has developed a thick skin by now.

You do not seem capable of discerning legitimate criticism from "bashing" and being "seriously harsh". For that matter, you don't even accept the premise that she can be criticized, while at the same time you feel that other posters are open to criticism for being old.

And that comes down to it in my mind. You've taken this on as some sort of us vs. them of you as a college student against the old farts. You aren't the first nor the last. And at some point you'll probably mature past it.

[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 10/26/2010 10:12a).]

The major issue here is that, by all accounts, the leadership has taken the view that "enforcing the standards is not worth the effort". They have done this cadet a disservice by treating her as a "sunk cost".

quote:

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And that comes down to it in my mind. You've taken this on as some sort of us vs. them of you as a college student against the old farts. You aren't the first nor the last. And at some point you'll probably mature past it.

---

Perhaps this is true, but I admitted the point where I became slightly unhinged. Surely you can understand why I reacted the way I did.

Also note that I dropped the jest about her being cute well back in the thread. As soon as it got a bit more heated and serious.
Others have brought it here.

The rest of it.

Lighten up old man (insert appropriate symbol for sarcasm here.)

[This message has been edited by OverR (edited 10/26/2010 10:40a).]

No, I don't understand why you reacted as you did. But I will put it down to the tendency of youth to think they are smarter and more enlightened than the generation before. It's been happening since Cain and Able thought that mom and dad were terribly out of it for wearing those old fig leaves.

I also wonder if you assume that we older guys are jumping on this because she's female. If so, you far underestimate us.

My wife graduated from A&M with a very challenging degree in a male-dominated field. Her major had the highest average SAT scores of any at A&M at the time. They started with 60 freshmen and graduated 13. Twelve guys and my wife.

Of my class from the Aggie Band, I know of at least 4 of our offspring who have or will soon commission. Two are our daughters. One was an outfit CO at A&M. My daughter is the same age as this Aggie BQ girl, but my daughter will commission Air Force May 2011 and has secured a slot in UPT (flight training)

I suspect a lot of the other old farts here can tell similar tales.

So if you think we have a problem with strong women, or women in the military, think again.

Dammit...I've been missing all the fun!

don't worry the Internet White Knight will always return to his damsel in distress.

Wildmen, go away.

In his continued defiance after being repeatedly disarmed, I tend to think of him more as The Black Night.

quote:

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Wildmen, go away.

---

No, you want the thread to die, stop posting in it.

Holy Crap this guy is a Grade A Moron

quote:

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In my mind its about some Old Ags being seriously harsh on a young one.

---

And it's not only folks who graduated 20+ years ago that think she's in the wrong here

[This message has been edited by Jock 07 (edited 10/26/2010 2:06p).]

OverR,

No disrespect, but I have to agree here. Having never been in the Corps nor military you will never understand unless you join. That is just the way it is plain and simple. Your opinions are civilian and as a civilian you have that right! Military on the other hand does not, and we chose to do that. It's just a society that you are not apart of.