So, if we leave NATO...

17,312 Views | 168 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by wannaggie
Ellis Wyatt
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Donald Trump is not far right by any stretch of the imagination. I wish he were. Seek help.
nortex97
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AG

When the Atlantic is snarky about a bureaucrat being removed, it's a sure sign this was a good move.
KentK93
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AG
The Atlantic used to be a cover to cover read for me. Now I only read it when one of my lefties send me a free article they want me to read.
“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
KentK93
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AG

This is an excellent article with some great video links.

https://hotair.com/tree-hugging-sister/2026/05/05/keir-starmer-should-have-looked-in-the-harbor-before-signing-those-ukraine-loan-papers-n3814618

Like this one:

“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
YouBet
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Ag1188 said:

Putin, Trump, Orban

What an allied group. Imagine explaining that to a 1940s American conservative. LMAO. A far-right cult of radical extremists led by the most ungodly American imaginable.


You're incredibly uneducated. Good work, man.
YouBet
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Quote:

As for agreeing to spend all that money in Ukraine, there is no money available for the British defense budget until 2030.


Goodness gracious. Good point in that article on the UK not really qualified to hold a permanent seat on the security council.

With five boats, they can put one at each point of the compass around the Isles and then have one rover to defend the Falklands from Argentina?
KentK93
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YouBet said:

Quote:

As for agreeing to spend all that money in Ukraine, there is no money available for the British defense budget until 2030.


Goodness gracious. Good point in that article on the UK not really qualified to hold a permanent seat on the security council.

With five boats, they can put one at each point of the compass around the Isles and then have one rover to defend the Falklands from Argentina?

Here is a Falklands naval veteran talking about the British Navy woes:

“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
nortex97
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Yes, the tiny Royal Navy is an utter joke, more so than most of the rest of the European military forces.
Quote:

There are now calls beginning to remove Britain from its permanent seat on the UN Security Council, as it doesn't have the capability to keep even a single vessel at sea at any given time.

The UK is just not a serious country and shouldn't be treated as one, imho, let alone an 'ally' to the American people.
KentK93
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Quote:

The UK is just not a serious country and shouldn't be treated as one, imho, let alone an 'ally' to the American people.


It's so sad to see where the UK currently stands. I'm not sure how I missed this decline but probably my bias towards UK from past history of their military. The UK use to punch above their weight not so much now.

I would pull France out keep UK in but votes however we tell them too. I would add India to security council.
“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
YouBet
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KentK93 said:

Quote:

The UK is just not a serious country and shouldn't be treated as one, imho, let alone an 'ally' to the American people.


It's so sad to see where the UK currently stands. I'm not sure how I missed this decline but probably my bias towards UK from past history of their military. The UK use to punch above their weight not so much now.

I would pull France out keep UK in but votes however we tell them too. I would add India to security council.



My feelings on India aside it's frankly dumb that they aren't. Granted, I don't think the UN should exist period so there's that.
KentK93
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We are in agreement. We should have really reformed it after 1989.
“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
KentK93
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Excellent Substack by CDR Salamander:

Kaplan quote which is spot on.
Quote:

Quote:Mahan was born in 1840 at West Point, the son of a professor at the United States Military Academy. His middle name, Thayer, honors the "father of the military academy," Sylvanus Thayer, who brought the institution up to modern standards. His great, burgeoning Navy may sound like a warmonger's dream. But Mahan was a realist. He wanted a great fleet for a purpose, because he believed in America's spiritual mission.
What kind of world do we want to live in? A world united by democracies that uphold a certain standard of human rights is incompatible with a weak Navy. That's because a stable, humane world requires economic prosperity. That, in turn, requires relatively unimpeded intercontinental trade and commerce. And that requires secure waterways.


https://open.substack.com/pub/cdrsalamander/p/robert-kaplan-returns-to-the-pier?selection=011f6243-851a-45e1-a271-db35c20353c4&r=tfmfm&utm_medium=ios
“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
annie88
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NATO can suck it.

I don’t get enough credit for the things I manage not to say.
nortex97
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Nothing to see here, just one of our Nato 'allies' trying to sell an ICBM to jihadi buyers based on the feature that it can hit the US.


Lame video, yes, but it shows a fantasy strike on American nuclear power plants.
Rossticus
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KentK93
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Rossticus said:



First Team!
“If you think you can do it better, go ahead. We will step aside.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio
nortex97
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VP Vance with a great response to a euro-weenie reporter who maliciously lied about the US reducing force posture in Poland by 4K troops in a question with the usual undertones/subtext.
nortex97
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LFG!
Rossticus
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nortex97
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This would be excellent:

It is plausible that by 2030 Reform, AfD and National Rally in the UK/Germ/France alike could take power, and all 3 move to withdraw from the unified nato military command, functionally neutering what remains of the organization. France's elections are in 11 months.

Rubio is at the Nato meeting (in Sweden) this week.

More to follow, surely.
aggiedent
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Ag1188 said:

Putin, Trump, Orban

What an allied group. Imagine explaining that to a 1940s American conservative. LMAO. A far-right cult of radical extremists led by the most ungodly American imaginable.


Trump is one of the most liberal Republicans presidents of the modern era. Over half of his beliefs and economic policies are from the Democratic playbook. Hell, prior to him running for president, in interviews and in his book, he has stated he preferred the Democrats in power generally.

But he's a smart cookie in some ways. He knew immigration was a huge issue with the Republican base………check. Hate on the Democrats………check. Nominate some conservative justices…….check. Come up with a cool America first slogan like MAGA to really get em going.

Boom………..MAGA worship him even though at heart he's a NY liberal. Watch his die hard supporters do mental gymnastics explaining away his liberal policies. One of the greatest con jobs ever.
Ellis Wyatt
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And yet he governs much more conservatively than anyone since Reagan. Puts the "compassionate conservative" with a liberal family to absolute shame. Not to mention his pathetic swampy father.
nortex97
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The only other data point really are the Bush duo. Hardly bastions of conservative ideals, after pops' 'read my lips, no new taxes' fiasco/betrayal cost him a second term.

Anyway, more from Rubio (RCP transcript):
Quote:

But the number one thing I used to tell people was, the reason why NATO is good for America, because that's the question. Anytime you join anything, your number one answer has to be, why is this good for America? The reason why NATO is good for America, I know why NATO is good for Europe, but why is NATO good for America? Because it gives us bases in the region that allow us to project power during a contingency in the Middle East or somewhere else. So when that is the key rationale for why you're in NATO, and then you have countries like Spain denying us the use of these bases, well, then why are you in NATO? That's a very fair question.

Now, in fairness, other questions, other countries in NATO have been very helpful, but we need to discuss that. That needs to be addressed, and that's what I hope to address and to set the table for the leaders meeting, which will be happening in Turkey, I think next month, if I'm not mistaken, in July.

REPORTER: Does the administration still believe that your NATO allies are cowards? That what? Does the administration still believe that your NATO allies are cowards?

RUBIO: Well, the President's been very disappointed. Understand that there are many countries in NATO that agree with us that Iran can't have a nuclear weapon, that Iran is a threat to the world. So the President said, fine, I'm going to do something about it. He's not asking them to commit troops. He's not asking them to send their fighter jets in. But they refuse to do anything.

So I think the President looks at that and says, hold on a second. If all these countries around the world agree with us that Iran can't have a nuclear weapon, that this regime is a threat to world peace and security, that already have missiles that can reach Europe. They don't have missiles that can reach America yet, but they have missiles that can reach Europe. We're actually step forward and do something about it, and everyone goes into hiding. Yeah, I think we're very upset about that. The President has made that very clear.

He's absolutely right, as usual.
YouBet
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aggiedent said:

Ag1188 said:

Putin, Trump, Orban

What an allied group. Imagine explaining that to a 1940s American conservative. LMAO. A far-right cult of radical extremists led by the most ungodly American imaginable.


Trump is one of the most liberal Republicans presidents of the modern era. Over half of his beliefs and economic policies are from the Democratic playbook. Hell, prior to him running for president, in interviews and in his book, he has stated he preferred the Democrats in power generally.

But he's a smart cookie in some ways. He knew immigration was a huge issue with the Republican base………check. Hate on the Democrats………check. Nominate some conservative justices…….check. Come up with a cool America first slogan like MAGA to really get em going.

Boom………..MAGA worship him even though at heart he's a NY liberal. Watch his die hard supporters do mental gymnastics explaining away his liberal policies. One of the greatest con jobs ever.


Actions not words. If he's largely governing from conservative policies, then WGAS what he once said. Totally irrelevant.

And, yes, he takes some Dem positions that really piss me off but he's still better than any Democrat.
ts5641
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nortex97 said:

The only other data point really are the Bush duo. Hardly bastions of conservative ideals, after pops' 'read my lips, no new taxes' fiasco/betrayal cost him a second term.

Anyway, more from Rubio (RCP transcript):
Quote:

But the number one thing I used to tell people was, the reason why NATO is good for America, because that's the question. Anytime you join anything, your number one answer has to be, why is this good for America? The reason why NATO is good for America, I know why NATO is good for Europe, but why is NATO good for America? Because it gives us bases in the region that allow us to project power during a contingency in the Middle East or somewhere else. So when that is the key rationale for why you're in NATO, and then you have countries like Spain denying us the use of these bases, well, then why are you in NATO? That's a very fair question.

Now, in fairness, other questions, other countries in NATO have been very helpful, but we need to discuss that. That needs to be addressed, and that's what I hope to address and to set the table for the leaders meeting, which will be happening in Turkey, I think next month, if I'm not mistaken, in July.

REPORTER: Does the administration still believe that your NATO allies are cowards? That what? Does the administration still believe that your NATO allies are cowards?

RUBIO: Well, the President's been very disappointed. Understand that there are many countries in NATO that agree with us that Iran can't have a nuclear weapon, that Iran is a threat to the world. So the President said, fine, I'm going to do something about it. He's not asking them to commit troops. He's not asking them to send their fighter jets in. But they refuse to do anything.

So I think the President looks at that and says, hold on a second. If all these countries around the world agree with us that Iran can't have a nuclear weapon, that this regime is a threat to world peace and security, that already have missiles that can reach Europe. They don't have missiles that can reach America yet, but they have missiles that can reach Europe. We're actually step forward and do something about it, and everyone goes into hiding. Yeah, I think we're very upset about that. The President has made that very clear.

He's absolutely right, as usual.

He's exactly right. There has to be some reward for us to be involved and foot the bill. If no benefit, then we get out and Europe can be on their own again. And history tells us that never ends well for them.
Ag with kids
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aggiedent said:

Ag1188 said:

Putin, Trump, Orban

What an allied group. Imagine explaining that to a 1940s American conservative. LMAO. A far-right cult of radical extremists led by the most ungodly American imaginable.


Trump is one of the most liberal Republicans presidents of the modern era. Over half of his beliefs and economic policies are from the Democratic playbook. Hell, prior to him running for president, in interviews and in his book, he has stated he preferred the Democrats in power generally.

But he's a smart cookie in some ways. He knew immigration was a huge issue with the Republican base………check. Hate on the Democrats………check. Nominate some conservative justices…….check. Come up with a cool America first slogan like MAGA to really get em going.

Boom………..MAGA worship him even though at heart he's a NY liberal. Watch his die hard supporters do mental gymnastics explaining away his liberal policies. One of the greatest con jobs ever.

He does have some left of center policies...

However, he's got a lot of right of center policies...

Immigration
Smaller government
Conservative justices/judges
Abortion is a state issue
Energy independence
The whole trans issue
Military spending
Education

BTW, if your proposition is right, that he's a liberal, then every Democrat out there are doing Comaneci level gymnastics...because they hate EVERYTHING he does...
You can turn off signatures, btw
Ulysses90
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Quote:

Boom………..MAGA worship him even though at heart he's a NY liberal.


No matter how much I might want a sabre toothed tiger, that species is extinct. I could waste my life looking for one in the wilds of the Alaskan wilderness or wishing for biologists to resurrect one from DNA preserved in perma-frost. Or, I could satisfy my desire for an apex predator feline to run for political office with one of the very few remaining Siberian tigers.

Given the extremely limited options, I will take the Siberian tiger that seems to have developed so much scar tissue on its ass that it is impervious to attacks, even from allegedly griendly backstabbing housecats named John Thune or John Cornyn that never ate a meal in their life that wasn't in a can from Purina.

Trump isn't the President I want but he is definitely the President I need at this moment in time. He has an ego that needs to be constantly stroked but at the same time he will ruthlessly disembowel those who oppose him. It's a volatile and only semi-stable combination of personality traits but I will gladly embrace it over any of the alternatives from the Marxist side of the aisle or those that Trump beat in the debates on the GOP side.

There are no more Calvin Coolidges out there. That breed as is extinct as the sabre toothed tigers.


aggiedent
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Ag with kids said:

aggiedent said:

Ag1188 said:

Putin, Trump, Orban

What an allied group. Imagine explaining that to a 1940s American conservative. LMAO. A far-right cult of radical extremists led by the most ungodly American imaginable.


Trump is one of the most liberal Republicans presidents of the modern era. Over half of his beliefs and economic policies are from the Democratic playbook. Hell, prior to him running for president, in interviews and in his book, he has stated he preferred the Democrats in power generally.

But he's a smart cookie in some ways. He knew immigration was a huge issue with the Republican base………check. Hate on the Democrats………check. Nominate some conservative justices…….check. Come up with a cool America first slogan like MAGA to really get em going.

Boom………..MAGA worship him even though at heart he's a NY liberal. Watch his die hard supporters do mental gymnastics explaining away his liberal policies. One of the greatest con jobs ever.

He does have some left of center policies...

However, he's got a lot of right of center policies...

Immigration
Smaller government
Conservative justices/judges
Abortion is a state issue
Energy independence
The whole trans issue
Military spending
Education

BTW, if your proposition is right, that he's a liberal, then every Democrat out there are doing Comaneci level gymnastics...because they hate EVERYTHING he does...


I'm gonna give you one example of the art of misdirection in Trump's administration. And it just might make you rethink your last statement.

One of your "right of center" policies was "smaller government."

It's true. He has totally leaned up the Federal workforce. MAGA loves that!!!!

Yet……….yet………….in his first 4 year term he managed to increase the national debt (by absolute dollars, and by percentage) more than Bush jr or Obama did in their first terms. And his second term isn't looking any better.

I remember when he took office in his first term how many folks on this forum said National debt might be the single most important issue that Trump would deal with. And now………it's like "hush….hush……let's not mention his liberal spending…….cant possibly ruin his image."

And that my friend is mental gymnastics at its finest.
wannaggie
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YouBet said:

Quote:

As for agreeing to spend all that money in Ukraine, there is no money available for the British defense budget until 2030.


Goodness gracious. Good point in that article on the UK not really qualified to hold a permanent seat on the security council.

With five boats, they can put one at each point of the compass around the Isles and then have one rover to defend the Falklands from Argentina?

5 seconds looking at a globe should be all it takes to make every rational human roll their eyes at the idea that the USA should expend either one of our two remaining flying fks on British control of Malvinas/Falklands. It makes as much sense as the idea that the USA should control Madagascar.
 
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