Any experience/advice on dealing with a good friend who's in total denial and continues to say he'll start clean the next day? His liver is telling him that he is in terrible condition and alcohol poisoning has become the norm. He is blessed with two loving children, but beer is his current God.
Alcoholic living a lie
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Last: 17 min ago by Martin Q. Blank
Sad truth is most people have to hit rock bottom and WANT to get better. No amount of pleading or reasoning by others will do it. They may go to rehab but they'll either leave early or relapse soon after.
ETA: I didn't mean that to be callous. This has just been what I've noticed. I do hope your friend realizes how much better his life could probably be. And I applaud you for supporting him.
ETA: I didn't mean that to be callous. This has just been what I've noticed. I do hope your friend realizes how much better his life could probably be. And I applaud you for supporting him.
Family in our small group has a brother who is an alcoholic. A few years ago, they had a family intervention and said, "It is straight to rehab from here, or you will never see your son or daughter again. Everyone in our family is done with you. We are no longer supporting you." His parents were the biggest enablers, letting him live with them with total support. But, they had run out of money and had to move in with the family in our small group. The family in our small group said he was not going to live with them under any circumstances, because he had burned them many times before.
He had gone and failed many times. But this time it has stuck because he has truly found Jesus. Now he works at the rehab / halfway house and has no possessions or money. He gives away anything he has.
He had gone and failed many times. But this time it has stuck because he has truly found Jesus. Now he works at the rehab / halfway house and has no possessions or money. He gives away anything he has.
He won't change until he hits bottom. For me, bottom was almost losing my family. Even then, when it seemed like all was lost, I still hung on to the alcohol. Finally a friend gave me a kick in the ass via a very honest conversation.
I remember complaining to him about my father and why my dad was to blame for my situation. He said "Let me ask you this: Do you want your daughter to be sitting across the table from a friend 30 years from now talking about you the same way you just talked about your dad?"
That hit me. He also led me to Jesus Christ, got me connected with a great church and men's group.
Nobody is a lost cause, and don't underestimate the power of prayer. But he also needs to realize he has something to lose (and I don't mean his life…addicts aren't addicts bc they love themselves). If he doesn't feel like what he cherishes most in the world is at risk, he has no motivation to change.
I remember complaining to him about my father and why my dad was to blame for my situation. He said "Let me ask you this: Do you want your daughter to be sitting across the table from a friend 30 years from now talking about you the same way you just talked about your dad?"
That hit me. He also led me to Jesus Christ, got me connected with a great church and men's group.
Nobody is a lost cause, and don't underestimate the power of prayer. But he also needs to realize he has something to lose (and I don't mean his life…addicts aren't addicts bc they love themselves). If he doesn't feel like what he cherishes most in the world is at risk, he has no motivation to change.
TONS of experience. Alcoholism runs in my family. My mom died at 62 from liver failure. I'm an alcoholic. I've been sober since January 2014.
In all honesty, if your friend is still drinking beer, he probably has a way to go to hit rock bottom. The last six or seven years I drank, I didn't touch beer. No burn going down, not enough alcohol to get drunk quickly, and so on. I wound up at a point where I'd sleep with a bottle of vodka next to the bed because I couldn't stay asleep without a minimum level of alcohol in my blood.
I eventually stopped drinking because Benny was five, I felt awful and had a physical for the first time in years, and my liver was in really bad shape. Within six months of stopping drinking, my liver was fine, BTW.
Statistically, very few alcoholics stop drinking. It's very much a b*tch and his master type of relationship (the drunk with alcohol). If he's to the point that it's affecting his kids' lives, it might be time for his wife to consider leaving. I don't know anything about interventions, but she obviously might look into one.
In all honesty, if your friend is still drinking beer, he probably has a way to go to hit rock bottom. The last six or seven years I drank, I didn't touch beer. No burn going down, not enough alcohol to get drunk quickly, and so on. I wound up at a point where I'd sleep with a bottle of vodka next to the bed because I couldn't stay asleep without a minimum level of alcohol in my blood.
I eventually stopped drinking because Benny was five, I felt awful and had a physical for the first time in years, and my liver was in really bad shape. Within six months of stopping drinking, my liver was fine, BTW.
Statistically, very few alcoholics stop drinking. It's very much a b*tch and his master type of relationship (the drunk with alcohol). If he's to the point that it's affecting his kids' lives, it might be time for his wife to consider leaving. I don't know anything about interventions, but she obviously might look into one.
And I'm sincerely happy that several of you have known people or have yourselves found sobriety through religion. I've had family go to rehab and get *nothing* out of it because they were agnostic and offered nothing of substance in terms of staying sober that wasn't tied to religion.
"Finding Jesus" isn't the blanket answer to getting sober. There isn't one.
"Finding Jesus" isn't the blanket answer to getting sober. There isn't one.
Agree that finding Jesus isn't a blanket answer to alcoholism. It's just a piece of it.
For me it acts as an anchor and provides a community of people that I can trust, be honest with, and who will hold me accountable and call me on my bs. It also provides hope that even a piece of **** like me can be redeemed.
You can find all that in other places besides religion, but my faith in Christ is what has kept me grounded through all of this.
Everyone is different though, and this is just my experience…though it seems like others have had a similar one
For me it acts as an anchor and provides a community of people that I can trust, be honest with, and who will hold me accountable and call me on my bs. It also provides hope that even a piece of **** like me can be redeemed.
You can find all that in other places besides religion, but my faith in Christ is what has kept me grounded through all of this.
Everyone is different though, and this is just my experience…though it seems like others have had a similar one
dabo man said:
And I'm sincerely happy that several of you have known people or have yourselves found sobriety through religion. I've had family go to rehab and get *nothing* out of it because they were agnostic and offered nothing of substance in terms of staying sober that wasn't tied to religion.
"Finding Jesus" isn't the blanket answer to getting sober. There isn't one.
I think the focus on religion in Alcoholic Anonymous is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people relapse. Well, that, and there is exactly zero science behind their approach.
Have you ever watched Lowdermilk? Even as someone who has no substance abuse issues, I thought it was a terrific series with a lot of wisdom and truth contained in the episodes.
Finding Jesus is just finding the light and strength within yourself.
Thanks y'all. There are definitely some worthwhile opinions that I plan to share with him. He's definitely worth saving, but it's up to him to find his way back.
It's really tough, I was very fortunate in that my wife attended Al Anon classes and knew she could not make me get help. Eventually, like dabo man, I had a bottle of vodka hidden away at night just to take the edge off ever few hours.
Been a hell of a journey these past two years. I would highly recommend The Orchard on the Brazos, I attended rehab there and it was an amazing place. Having said that, the odds sure don't seem to be in the favor of quitting, almost all the people I went to rehab back picked it back up. I was very fortunate.
At the end of the day, they have to want to change for themselves.
Been a hell of a journey these past two years. I would highly recommend The Orchard on the Brazos, I attended rehab there and it was an amazing place. Having said that, the odds sure don't seem to be in the favor of quitting, almost all the people I went to rehab back picked it back up. I was very fortunate.
At the end of the day, they have to want to change for themselves.
Best of luck to you and I too applaud you for your efforts in helping.
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Backyard Gator said:dabo man said:
And I'm sincerely happy that several of you have known people or have yourselves found sobriety through religion. I've had family go to rehab and get *nothing* out of it because they were agnostic and offered nothing of substance in terms of staying sober that wasn't tied to religion.
"Finding Jesus" isn't the blanket answer to getting sober. There isn't one.
I think the focus on religion in Alcoholic Anonymous is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people relapse. Well, that, and there is exactly zero science behind their approach.
Have you ever watched Lowdermilk? Even as someone who has no substance abuse issues, I thought it was a terrific series with a lot of wisdom and truth contained in the episodes.
So there's no science to admitting you have a problem? Seeking out someone or something to help you? Learning about whatever it is that you are dealing with from diabetes to alcohol? Then supporting yourself by working with and for others?
I do strongly believe you should not put a spiritual bandage on a psychological wound. I also know Phil 4:13. Beyond that I know my knowledge is nothing compared to the awesomeness of God and his creation.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
My nephew was a serious alcoholic. For years friends, family and others tried to get him to get helps. His answer, I'm not going to quit drinking. He ended up being hospitalized with blood sugar level of 800. He died one day shy of his 43rd birthday. LISTEN TO THOSE WHO LOVE YOU!
Quote:
I think the focus on religion in Alcoholic Anonymous is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people relapse.
May I suggest you read Chapter four (We Agnostics) in the Big Book?
Caring for an addict is a heavy, heavy burden. I have learned through experience that you cannot beg, plead, reason with, love, or shame someone into sobriety. At best, you can directly express how their addiction impacts you and hope that they hear you and that they have the internal motivation to heal and get sober. I have seen people completely turn their lives around after an intervention, and I have also seen people kill themselves. In neither case did their loved ones do something right or wrong, it's entirely dependent on the addict themselves.
The best gift you can give an addict is honesty paired with love and consistency. The best gift you can give yourself is clear boundaries that you actually stick to.
The best gift you can give an addict is honesty paired with love and consistency. The best gift you can give yourself is clear boundaries that you actually stick to.
Addiction has been unkind to my family, and the only thing I can really say is you never know where that person's tipping point is until they've reached it. For one person in my family it was becoming homeless and living in his truck for a year, for another, it was his 17th DUI. One of my uncles rode his last high right into the grave, having never reached a tipping point to get sober.
All you can do is try. And you should.
All you can do is try. And you should.
17th DUI
ToddyHill said:Quote:
I think the focus on religion in Alcoholic Anonymous is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people relapse.
May I suggest you read Chapter four (We Agnostics) in the Big Book?
Was going to say the same thing.
maroon barchetta said:
17th DUI
Why isn't he jail? Thst should have happened looooong before #17
Advice? My advice is do what you can to help them within reason and if it doesn't work, walk away. Had to do that with a parent after one got cancer and died. The old man was always a functional alcoholic but he got worse. Me and my sis tried to help, but eventually he got too verbally and emotionally abusive to deal with. We havn't spoken to him almost a decade. He never met his grandkids once and I intend on keeping that the case as long as I am alive and can influence it. Dealing with people like that will consume you and destroy whatever good YOU have in life. Don't do it.
My opinion is that is someone wants help to get better and live life, then you should help them achieve that. If they only want to drink, get worse and risk killing themselves, that's fantastic too, just don't drag it out for everyone else that has to deal with that *****
My opinion is that is someone wants help to get better and live life, then you should help them achieve that. If they only want to drink, get worse and risk killing themselves, that's fantastic too, just don't drag it out for everyone else that has to deal with that *****
Hill08 said:maroon barchetta said:
17th DUI
Why isn't he jail? Thst should have happened looooong before #17
Well, he's dead (and I never said he didn't spend time in jail). The rest is a long story, but it was long before the big push to reform DUI laws and sentencing minimums.
I honestly don't think I've ever known anyone who lied about wanting to get sober. I've known people who could, at least in their own minds, rationalize whatever they did.
I've been utterly amazed at the longevity of some people, as well as having known a couple people who just kept going until they didn't anymore.
Not sure what you can really do, other than try to create normal positive experiences when you're around them. And minimize your interactions with them if you have to for your own sake.
I've been utterly amazed at the longevity of some people, as well as having known a couple people who just kept going until they didn't anymore.
Not sure what you can really do, other than try to create normal positive experiences when you're around them. And minimize your interactions with them if you have to for your own sake.
Backyard Gator said:dabo man said:
And I'm sincerely happy that several of you have known people or have yourselves found sobriety through religion. I've had family go to rehab and get *nothing* out of it because they were agnostic and offered nothing of substance in terms of staying sober that wasn't tied to religion.
"Finding Jesus" isn't the blanket answer to getting sober. There isn't one.
I think the focus on religion in Alcoholic Anonymous is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people relapse. Well, that, and there is exactly zero science behind their approach.
Have you ever watched Lowdermilk? Even as someone who has no substance abuse issues, I thought it was a terrific series with a lot of wisdom and truth contained in the episodes.
Higher Power. Maybe religion, maybe not. And lots of people without problems have opinions. But veterans of the inside know to pay no attention to the opinions of those on the outside; alcoholism is too serious to play psychological grabass with.
There's a guy on the Say Cheese Brazos County Mugshots FB page that has been arrested for PI three days in a row. Wearing the same shirt in each photo.
Comments say his family has tried to get him to go to rehab, but he gives them the Amy Winehouse response.
Comments say his family has tried to get him to go to rehab, but he gives them the Amy Winehouse response.
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:Backyard Gator said:
I think the focus on religion in Alcoholic Anonymous is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people relapse. Well, that, and there is exactly zero science behind their approach.
So there's no science to admitting you have a problem? Seeking out someone or something to help you? Learning about whatever it is that you are dealing with from diabetes to alcohol? Then supporting yourself by working with and for others?
I assume what the poster is implying is that, despite being the framework of many recovery programs in the US, the documented success rate of twelve step programs is pretty poor.
I agree with that to a point, and I have very mixed feelings about the operation of the recovery industry in this country (and make no mistake, it is an industry)--but OTOH, it also isn't very fair to assess the efficacy of a treatment approach on the basis of it being employed in people who don't want to get treated in the first place.
The simple fact is that a large number of people in "treatment" are there because of involvement with the criminal justice system, and are being ordered to participate as a condition of probation. In actuality, many don't want to get sober; they just don't want to go to jail. And in the long term, that works every bit as well as it sounds like it would.
As several other people have said already, the first condition is that the addicted person has to want to change (as the AAers would say, "I can't, God can, think I'll let Him"). If the person isn't ready to change, no intervention is going to be successful.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Go to regenerationrecovery.org to find a group nearby. AA just hopes to stop the habit. Regeneration helps to find Jesus which changes the heart and by necessity stops the habit by uncovering the underlying issues. Community and accountability are big aspects of Regen. I personally know a few hundred that have found freedom through Regen.
Quote:
Go to regenerationrecovery.org to find a group nearby. AA just hopes to stop the habit. Regeneration helps to find Jesus which changes the heart and by necessity stops the habit by uncovering the underlying issues.
This is based on an assumption that one cannot be truly happy without being Christian. This is absolutely false.
No one else can do it for them. They have to do it themselves.
Enviroag02 said:
AA just hopes to stop the habit.
Leaving aside any questions of effectiveness, that is just a gross mischaracterization of the goals of AA. Admitting defects of character, making amends, seeking conscious contact with God, etc. are far beyond "just stopping the habit".
The roots of AA are derived from a Christian revival movement called the Oxford Group that did not have anything to do with substance abuse or addiction.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
ToddyHill said:
May I suggest you read Chapter four (We Agnostics) in the Big Book?
Although I'm not in a 12 step program, I personally find the theology in "We Agonstics" beautiful.
I will say, however, that if one is either a militant atheist who is incapable of believing (or unwilling to believe) in anything other than strict materialism, or a fundamentalist (of any creed) who is incapable of believing (or unwilling to believe) that any religion other than theirs could be a pathway to God, it's very difficult to fully buy into the program.
And that's OK--there is no one perfect pathway for everyone.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
aglaohfour said:
Caring for an addict is a heavy, heavy burden. I have learned through experience that you cannot beg, plead, reason with, love, or shame someone into sobriety. At best, you can directly express how their addiction impacts you and hope that they hear you and that they have the internal motivation to heal and get sober. I have seen people completely turn their lives around after an intervention, and I have also seen people kill themselves. In neither case did their loved ones do something right or wrong, it's entirely dependent on the addict themselves.
The best gift you can give an addict is honesty paired with love and consistency. The best gift you can give yourself is clear boundaries that you actually stick to.
Anyone dealing with this I've got some friends who've been through it and have helped a lot of people establish boundaries. There are lots of resources out there for addicts but unfortunately not as many resources for their loved ones.
Reclaim Your Life
My oldest brother is a functioning alcoholic. I honestly don't know how he does it. If he is awake he is drinking some cheap lager. He drinks 18-24 beers a day and still holds down a job and a marriage. I tried talking about it with him 10 years ago and he just laughed at me. There is no way he's going to stop unless he has something physically catastrophic happen to him.
My name is Jim and I'm an alcoholic and have a 34-year chip on my keychain. While I do not compare myself to Doctor Bob, one of the founders of AA, I do agree with what the man had to say. If you want to quit drinking for good and for all, and feel like you need some help, we KNOW we have an answer for you. The Big Book and the AA program never claimed to be based on science, it's a description of what the founders did and what they achieved. It was suggested that if you want what we have, do what we did.
Problem is most people don't want to stop drinking; they want to avoid the consequences of their drinking. Very little, if anything can be done for an individual unless he or she wants to do something about it.
I haven't spent one minute of the past 34 years trying to overcome or otherwise deal with an addiction.
Problem is most people don't want to stop drinking; they want to avoid the consequences of their drinking. Very little, if anything can be done for an individual unless he or she wants to do something about it.
I haven't spent one minute of the past 34 years trying to overcome or otherwise deal with an addiction.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.
James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
agz win said:
Any experience/advice on dealing with a good friend who's in total denial and continues to say he'll start clean the next day? His liver is telling him that he is in terrible condition and alcohol poisoning has become the norm. He is blessed with two loving children, but beer is his current God.
One of my best friends sits at home everyday drinking himself into a stupor. He's lost every relationship he's ever been in (luckily no kids of his own, only step), his job, his physical ability to do his job, his appearance, and any kind of joy in life. He's getting by because his elderly and disabled mother lives in another building on his property and keeps foreclosure at bay.
He recently attended the funeral of another friend's brother that died of a fentanyl overdoes after getting out of prison for an extended time for the first time since he hit a double digit age. During the afterparty, my wife told my friend that he did not look well and he was shocked. He called me and asked me why he's all of a sudden getting bombarded by people telling him he's an alcoholic. I've been talking to him for months about his drinking problem, but it never set in. He's still in denial that he's an alcoholic despite the fact that he's drunk 24 hours a day and his liver was in bad shape years ago.
A mutual friend of ours and I discussed it today and decided that he'll never stop and that we'll likely have to go to his funeral someday.
We've all tried talking him into going to some sort of rehab. He has no money, but is a Vet so he could find some resources there, but isn't interested. Some people you just can't help, because they don't want to be helped.
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