millionaires

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YouBet
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AG
I can echo everything you've said here as someone who put 20 years into F500 and then was a founding member of a startup for the last three years.

This is absolutely true and happened to me:

Quote:

If you're working for someone else, always keep your eyes open for all kinds of opportunities. As a rule, corporations are fickle. I've had a lot of friends and colleagues give their all to a company, only to get their legs cut out unexpectedly.


I went from a highly rewarding career progression (with a planned promotion to the next level) to getting sidelined overnight by an out of the blue re-org that gave us a new SVP who was infamous for f'ing people over (and actually proud of it - would brag about it). He halted the plan we had in place and then brought in a new person who didn't know dick about the business and derailed the entire strategy. Our existence became a non-stop effort to appease his hubris.

I left when it became prudent to do so. I then joined a startup which is a wholly different world and mentality. Gunslinger attitude is a requirement like you said. You have to be ok with almost no structure. It's a non-stop grind for survival the first couple of years to get the business off the ground, building the infrastructure to support it, proving to investors you are real, etc.

It was a fascinating run. I just couldn't maintain the pace anymore and was ready to retire. Left on great terms though.
Tex117
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AG
RAB83 said:

Skipped around a little on this thread (long thread). I spent the first 20 years of my career climbing corporate ladders. Finally, at age 42 I had my full entrepreneurial seizure and started a business. I thought I was a little old at the time, but it turns out the average age for entrepreneurs to start is age 42.

Still, it was hard to walk away from an executive position when I had a wife who worked part time, two kids, a mortgage, two car payments, and a pair of Shelties. It turned out to be the best financial decision of my life. Fifteen years later, I sold to private equity for generational wealth.

A couple of thoughts...

When you work for a paycheck, you're building wealth for other people. When you write the paychecks, you're building wealth for yourself, or rather, your employees are building wealth for you.

A wealthy Aggie buddy of mine likes to say that HR managers' goals are to figure out what it takes financially to keep you from leaving and pay you $1 more. It's a form of golden handcuffs. You think you can't afford to leave, but if your goal is to build real wealth for yourself and your family, you can't afford to stay.

The way an employee creates wealth is by squeezing his lifestyle far enough below his pay that there's a little left over to put in the bank. The way a business owner creates wealth is growing his business and/or bottom line. One is scarcity thinking. The other is prosperity thinking.

It's never too late to become an entrepreneur. The average age of first time entrepreneurs is 42. There are a number of legendary entrepreneurs who started after that... Ray Kroc, Harlan Sanders, Reed Hastings, etc.

I worked in the service trades. I personally know dozens of HVAC contractors, plumbers, and electrical contractors who never went to college, but went into business for themselves, and are now multi-millionaires.

Being a millionaire is not enough. One day a friend who was an air conditioning contractor called me. He was excited because he was offered $3 million for his company. He was too young for social security to be a factor (and it's not much of one, in any case).

I said, "Let's say you sell it. A financial advisor will tell you to expect 7% to 8% from investments and to budget 4% to 5% for living expenses with the difference building equity for inflation. Five percent of $3 million is $150 thousand. Can you live on that?"

There was a pause, then he said, "Not with my current lifestyle."

"Well," I said, "It gets worse. You've got to pay capital gains. I don't know what your state capital gains is, but federal capital gains and the Obamacare tax will take just under a quarter of your sale proceeds."

He decided to continue to build his business and eventually sold for a healthy eight figures. He never went to college. He started his business by moonlighting from the phone company.

Anyone who went to A&M can certainly do what my friend did, but you've got to be comfortable with the risk.

Don't think about your lifestyle today. If you're surviving on $150K today, triple that and work backward to a wealth number. You don't have to share the result with anyone, but keep focused on it. Don't limit yourself.

I can remember talking with a couple of plumbers in Australia. Both owned successful plumbing companies, but one of them also owned a small, specialty manufacturing business and developed commercial properties. When really successful people like this guy start talking, I listen.

The uber successful one said, "A million dollars a year. That's all I need. I can live on that."

A million dollars a year? I was stunned. I'd never imagined that for myself, but here was this guy, who was a regular guy despite his success, talking about it in a matter of fact manner. Over the following days and weeks, I kept thinking about that conversation. Finally my thinking shifted. Why not, I started thinking. I didn't know how I'd get there, but I did.

Today, I don't work for money. I have money that works for me. I don't try to manage it myself. I use people who do this for a living and are better at it than I am. They know about things like tax harvesting. They know how to hedge investments. These are things you can't do with an index fund. Besides the peace of mind, I'd rather hunt or fish or travel or waste time on TexAgs. If I didn't start a business, I would probably still be working for someone, wondering how I can ever afford to retire. START A BUSINESS!!!

If you're still in school, get involved with the McFerrin Center or the Meloy program in the College of Engineering. A&M is doing a lot these days to develop entrepreneurs. And if you're out of school, remember, it's never too late to start your entrepreneurial journey.

Like some have said, by and large, this is required to make some big time money. But its also very high risk. Most new businesses fail.

It is absolutely viable to do the boring ol' slow investing over time. If you can get a jump on it when you are young, even better.

If you show restraint, make some frugal choices, your investment income will be more than your salary (assuming about 150-200k) by the time you are in your 40s. And that is just doing the boring ol corporate job without the blood sweat and tears of running a new business.
Proposition Joe
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I think much like the "millionaire vs millionaire accounting for inflation" discussion, there's slight differences that have to be accounted for to get a true picture.

You can absolutely work in a corporate job, earning your salary increases every year and investing wisely and be sitting pretty for retirement when it comes.

But I think prior to this decade, doing the above would have always kept you on the same playing field as most of your peers -- whereas today you can be doing all of the above the "right" way, and you are getting passed by a large # of your peers whether it be due to side hustles, aggressive stock market investing, bitcoin, etc...

Both approaches work - one's safer and slower, the other's faster and bumpier but in today's world, it's not uncommon for the faster track to actually stay ahead.
bagger05
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AG
A few thoughts on entrepreneurship:

1. I feel like it gets a little glorified, as if it's something that every person should aspire to. I strongly disagree. It has its pros and cons like any other profession. There's lots of potential upside, but like any other job there's a big pile of crap that comes with it. Whether it's right for you or not depends on whether you're willing to put up with that particular flavor of nonsense.

2. If you want to be an entrepreneur, you don't have to start a business from scratch. You can buy an existing business and level it up. This is a lot harder on the front end than starting your own thing, but it comes with a lot of advantages and lower financial risk if you can find the right deal.

2a. Related to the above, if you want to go this route I've heard a lot of good things about the book Buy Then Build by Walker Diebel and HBR Guide to Buying a Small Business. I think the people like Codie Sanchez on Instagram telling you how easy it is to "buy boring businesses" are more interested in selling courses than your financial success.

3. You don't have to sell your company to get rich. A lot of great businesses are fantastic cash cows that wouldn't normally attract much private equity attention (right now the PE market is crazy so the parameters of what they're looking at is unusually broad... who knows how long that will last). And even if they do, they might not get attractive multiples. Like if you have a business that's kicking out half a million a year, would you rather sell it for 3-5 times earnings or have a business that kicks out half a million a year?

4. A lot of people talk about entrepreneurship like it's table stakes to be working 80 hours a week, not having time for your family or hobbies, always on call, late nights, high stress, etc. A lot of new opportunities take this path, but you can design it differently. Most entrepreneurs I know that work insane hours do so because they love what they're doing and/or they're doing a bunch of stuff they're bad at that should be handed off to someone else.
Tex117
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AG
You say this a lot.

It's also not uncommon for the faster route to get absolutely creamed. There hasn't been a true up bad ass recession in almost 20 years. There is absolutely no question it's going to happen. (God knows when, but it will happen). As everyone on Wall Street says, that's when you see who has been swimming without a swim suit.

Proposition Joe
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Tex117 said:

You say this a lot.

It's also not uncommon for the faster route to get absolutely creamed. There hasn't been a true up bad ass recession in almost 20 years. There is absolutely no question it's going to happen. (God knows when, but it will happen). As everyone on Wall Street says, that's when you see who has been swimming without a swim suit.



I say it a lot because some still look at things in a vacuum or in a last 50 years historical context.

For a long time you had people telling you the key to success in loyalty to a company. It took a lot of people a long time to realize those job hoppers were lapping them in pay. Now if you preach loyalty to a company long term you are laughed at.

There's still people on Texags that call bitcoin "tulips". There's people who have
100xed their investments in a decade (or less), but "eventually the house of cards will come down".

Sure it might, but for many that money has already been made.

The game has changed. You can still play it the old way and retire comfortably, but you will still be losing ground compared to many in the race - the number of newly minted millionaires year over year proves that.
Tex117
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AG
Proposition Joe said:

Tex117 said:

You say this a lot.

It's also not uncommon for the faster route to get absolutely creamed. There hasn't been a true up bad ass recession in almost 20 years. There is absolutely no question it's going to happen. (God knows when, but it will happen). As everyone on Wall Street says, that's when you see who has been swimming without a swim suit.



I say it a lot because some still look at things in a vacuum or in a last 50 years historical context.

For a long time you had people telling you the key to success in loyalty to a company. It took a lot of people a long time to realize those job hoppers were lapping them in pay. Now if you preach loyalty to a company long term you are laughed at.

There's still people on Texags that call bitcoin "tulips". There's people who have
100xed their investments in a decade (or less), but "eventually the house of cards will come down".

Sure it might, but for many that money has already been made.

The game has changed. You can still play it the old way and retire comfortably, but you will still be losing ground compared to many in the race - the number of newly minted millionaires year over year proves that.


I mean, fair point on the old adage of the company loyalty thing. And, of course, one needs to change one's investment strategy for the times.

But, with the whole "money has been made"…. Sure, some will bail before the end, but the knife will drop. Someone's going to catch it. (Same for all investments).

It all depends on one's position (as in life), risk tolerance, job, timeline, etc.

IMO, a proper mix of risk depending on the individual is the right way to go. Hedges against downturns, as well as upside and n some risky bets.

As an aside, and probably for another thread, curious to see what bitcoin does in a true recession. It wasn't near what it is now during the last one.
Proposition Joe
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And understand when I reference bitcoin I am coming from a postion of the "have nots". I wasn't an early adopter and it makes up a small percentage of my investments even now.

But solely looking at it from an investment standpoint, that was a once in a lifetime opportunity and many exponentially increased their net worth due to it.
Tex117
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AG
Proposition Joe said:

And understand when I reference bitcoin I am coming from a postion of the "have nots". I wasn't an early adopter and it makes up a small percentage of my investments even now.

But solely looking at it from an investment standpoint, that was a once in a lifetime opportunity and many exponentially increased their net worth due to it.
no question.

But that's also like someone hitting a slot machine at a casino. It's big and flashy. Looks like everyone is winning but you. For everyone one of them, hundreds of other people are losing their azz.

There will always be some folks that make it big. Oil, real estate, bit coin, that one big stock all in bet. But for the handful (collectively speaking) that make that kind of money, many many more end up in a worse position.

It all depends on the individual and individual circumstance.

I think a lot of the point in the general advice is that one doesn't have to go all in on a risky bet, but can be a millionaire, likely many times over, with boring investments. Many financial illiterate people don't understand the power of compounding, boring investing, and time.
ABATTBQ11
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AG
razor63 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

We're just now crossing the $1MM hump (including home equity) and have been flirting with it for awhile. Mid-30's, 2 kids, and wife left her job earlier this year to stay at home. Could've gotten here much earlier, but she took a low paying career for 10+ years because it was her dream job (animal/whale trainer) and we've done most everything on my income. That also made it easy for her to stay at home because after daycare costs and taxes it wasn't that big of a loss (though we put our son in a part time MDO program). Both kids will be in school in a year, and we'll have the house fully paid off in 4.


Good job! Some on this thread seem to sluff off the million mark and I agree if you were retiring that may not be enough. However, at your age that's quite an accomplishment.

I'm curious too about the whale training. Did your wife work for Sea World?


Thanks! We have been blessed and gotten lucky, but a fair amount has been due to early sacrifices and saving. I have to credit my FIL for a lot of sage life advice and day to day help with advice on problems around the house. My target is $4-$5 million, but I've got another 20-25 years for that. Average 8% return with additional savings every year should get there.


Since so many have asked...

She did. She'd wanted to do it and she was 5 and never gave up on it. Graduated with a zoology degree in 3.5 years, which is a serious accomplishment considering some do it as a premed degree. It's similar to BIMS.

We kind of lucked into it because we decided to get married after I graduated (a semester late, but I also had a full spring semester internship) and have in SA. She interned at a zoo and worked for a free flight bird show (same company that used to do the Texas State Fair) between when she graduated and when I did. I just happened to get a good job offer in SA right before graduation, and we got married and she moved in 3 months later. A month after that she had her first interview there for an entry level training position. One guy asked her if she knew how hard the work was because of her very short stature and incredibly youthful appearance (routinely mistaken for a teenager in her late 20's).

She didn't get the job but got one a month later in education (basically the person giving facts and answering questions). She did that as a seasonal for a year or so and was recognized by the animal ambassador team for being very knowledgeable and working hard. Their supervisor had her apply for their next open position and had to walk her resume through HR. She got that position and was there for about 3-4 years, first as a seasonal and then full time. Mind you, these positions were all making like $9-$12/hr. However, it had its perks. She got to do an animal presentation on stage with Jack Hanna, and we met him several times before he retired. She also went along on some media tours in Dallas and had a cockatoo and screech owl in her hotel room with an alligator in the bathtub. She also did a fair amount with birds of prey and worked a bald eagle on glove. Through her I've also met some amazing animals, like a binturong, a cheetah and her cubs, sloths, alligators, all kinds of owls, a snow leopard, a fennec fox, porcupines, rosiette spoonbills, pythons, macaws, cockatoos, penguins, belugas, sea lions, a walrus, and many others. And when I say met, I mean I actually got to interact with and pet many of them. Not many can say they hung out with and pet a snow leopard. We actually have some pictures of our daughter hand feeding a hippo at 2 years old through one of her zoo connections.

She got some promotions in there and was eventually moved to Belugas and Pacific White Sided Dolphins. She was there until she decided to hang up the whistle. Yes, she swam in shows along with doing a lot of training. She also got to do some truly incredible things like accompany two whales on a transport to Florida. They literally FedEx them by chartering a cargo plane, putting them in a special box, and flying them. She got to be on the transport team and was strapped to the box from the park to the plane on the back of a semi to keep an eye on one of the whales. She was in the box with one of the whales for a good part of the flight also, so she can claim she's gotten to swim at 35,000 feet. She was there for the birth of a few dolphins and whales, too, which is not something many get to see or be a part of. She also got to have our daughter be the kid volunteer for a show and do an interaction with her with some of the whales (she got to wear a wetsuit and everything). We've been in the back to see them so much that our daughter has her favorite whales that she loves to go say hi to and our son is disappointed if we don't go to the back and see them all.

My wife absolutely loved it, even though it was incredibly tough. It is NOT something you do for the money or the glamour because there's not a lot of either. The water is 55* year round, so you're freezing your ass off in the winter and burning up running around in a wetsuit all day in the summer. The hours are also highly variable in the busy seasons. She worked plenty of nights and overnights when watching sick animals or new calves, early mornings (4:30 am, sometimes after getting off at 9:30 the night before) thawing fish and doing diet prep, and was all but guaranteed to work Saturday, Sunday, or both all the time. They are also open on holidays, so she worked most bof those too. There's no holiday pay or didn't differential or anything either. Benefits have been on a steady decline since Annheuser Busch was bought out and the parks were sold off. She hadn't had a pay increase in about 4-5 years when she left (no one had), and her team had been cut to basically bare bones after covid. The new people they did hire were generally not great. She's got some real Gen Z horror stories.. She had trouble using her PTO because they couldn't get the right mix of people if more than one person at her level of seniority was gone at a time (needed senior people to supervise for a lot of training sessions or other things) and didn't have enough bodies if 1-2 of their juniors were gone. Taking a weekend off or going somewhere took favors and moving heaven and earth. With the decreasing benefits, the crazy hours being opposite our daughter's school schedule, and the impact on our general ability to be together, it finally wasn't worth it anymore.
Proposition Joe
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Tex117 said:

Proposition Joe said:

And understand when I reference bitcoin I am coming from a postion of the "have nots". I wasn't an early adopter and it makes up a small percentage of my investments even now.

But solely looking at it from an investment standpoint, that was a once in a lifetime opportunity and many exponentially increased their net worth due to it.

no question.

But that's also like someone hitting a slot machine at a casino. It's big and flashy. Looks like everyone is winning but you. For everyone one of them, hundreds of other people are losing their azz.

There will always be some folks that make it big. Oil, real estate, bit coin, that one big stock all in bet. But for the handful (collectively speaking) that make that kind of money, many many more end up in a worse position.

It all depends on the individual and individual circumstance.

I think a lot of the point in the general advice is that one doesn't have to go all in on a risky bet, but can be a millionaire, likely many times over, with boring investments. Many financial illiterate people don't understand the power of compounding, boring investing, and time.


I agree for the most part, but I think being in oil in Texas during a certain era, or land-grabs in other regions, is a good comparison.

Sure there was inherent risk, and if you were late to the game you went bust. But there have only been a handful of "sudden new money" type events in the history of the US, and even less in the last 100 years. The dot-com era produced quick 20x returns for many people, 100x in some rare instances -- but even that was limited to people who had access to stock buying and IPOs which in the 90s was a fraction of what it is today.

Crypto was producing 100x-1000x for those who bought in -- even years after the early investors. That's a generational type opportunity that changed the landscape of "millionaires".
RAB83
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AG
When I got out of A&M, I believed that nearly all new businesses failed. I don't know where I learned this, but it was common knowledge. It's bullcr*p.

Yes, some new businesses fail, but nearly as many as most people believe, though anyone going into business who thinks this will likely create a self-fulfilling prophesy. When businesses fail, it's usually due to one of the following…

1. The business is undercapitalized or spends frivolously. Businesses close when they run out of cash. Cash is king. You've heard the term "cold, hard cash." Well, that's wrong. Cash isn't cold or hard. It's warm and soft and you can cuddle it. The business owner who can sleep under a blanket of warm, soft cash, sleeps well. Watch purchasing, T&E, and leases. Cut marketing that doesn't move the sales needle and/or generate leads.

2. The business doesn't make adjustments. A static business model for a small and growing business is probably doomed. Things happen. Change happens. Flexibility is a must. Learning is continual.

3. The owner screws up. This is a broad category. He can screw up by not putting controls in place to guard against employee theft and fraud, which happens a lot. He can screw up by not hiring well and firing problems when he should. He can screw up by losing focus and chasing after every new business fad. At the same time, he needs to willing to try things and abandon them when they don't work. He can screw up with poor financials and a failure to understand them. He can screw up by getting burnt out or getting complacent and coasting. If you're coasting, you're heading downhill. He can screw up with compensation systems that reward people in unexpected and counterproductive ways.

If a business fails, the owner loses his investment. However, he also becomes far more attractive and valuable to an employer. He understand how business works. He's more likely to take a big picture view. Plus, he will discourage other employees from leaving to start their own gigs.

When I was an employee, I had limited ability to control my own destiny. I could largely control my business unit, but even that was affected by other corporate elements. As a business owner, I could directly impact my company's performance. When the economy turned down and I was an employee, I would look over my shoulder to see if a layoff was coming. When it turned down and I was a business owner (e.g., 2008), I challenged my team, put forth extra effort and grew through it. While I was running the business as an employee, post-sale, I did the same thing during Covid and we grew through it, beat the pre-Covid profit plan, and was the only subsidiary out of 40+ the parent owned that didn't experience a layoff. Is starting a business risky? Maybe, but so is working for someone else.

Instead of looking at the "failure rate" and thinking you can't make it, look at the success rate and be determined to succeed. As an Aggie, you are a cut above. Lots of people running businesses are just plain dumb*sses. Yet, many of them succeed in spite of their own ineptitude.

A lot of business concepts and products that I tried, failed. Usually, when they failed it was because I didn't give them enough attention or delegated to someone who wasn't committed (which is a fail on me). This happened because I was pushing other, more lucrative opportunities. Sometimes they failed because I screwed up or a strategic partner screwed up, so I abandoned them or shelved them to try later. Anything that made money, I kept around (i.e., long-tail theory) unless is sucked up a lot of management time.

There were also business concepts and opportunities that I thought were dogs, but that had champions who believed in them. If someone really wanted to try something, I let them and let them know I was skeptical so they would be more motivated to prove me wrong. This created a culture of innovation and led directly to our most profitable business unit.

I owned the business for 15 years before selling to private equity. We earned six Aggie 100 awards once I learned about it. It gets harder to make the Aggie 100 as you grow.

If you're happy in your corporate job, stay there. But don't feel like you can't succeed in business for yourself, because you can, if you choose to.

Here's the actual statistics on business failures…

What Percentage Of Startups Fail?
RAB83
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AG
Bagger, you make some good points...

Quote:

1. I feel like it gets a little glorified, as if it's something that every person should aspire to. I strongly disagree. It has its pros and cons like any other profession. There's lots of potential upside, but like any other job there's a big pile of crap that comes with it. Whether it's right for you or not depends on whether you're willing to put up with that particular flavor of nonsense.

There's no doubt entrepreneurship has been glorified. Think of the Horatio Alger stories, which were rags to riches stories about what is possible in America. Then, we have Musk, Jobs, Sam Walton, Beaver Aplin, Ray Kroc, Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Phil Knight, Zuckerberg, Gates, Dell, and Trump. Then there are the reality TV shows. These are superstars and they're no different that the superstars of sports being glorified. The difference is very few people can make it in the NFL, MBA, NBA, NHL, etc. Lots of people can make it in business, even if they never reach superstar level.

You are correct that entrepreneurship is not for everyone. However, I dealt with a lot more crap working in the Fortune 500 than working as an entrepreneur. I dealt with more working for a 100+ consulting firm. My father dealt with magnitudes more working as a college professor. There's crap everywhere. Plus, my experience is there's a lot more nonsense working in a publicly traded company.

Quote:

2. If you want to be an entrepreneur, you don't have to start a business from scratch. You can buy an existing business and level it up. This is a lot harder on the front end than starting your own thing, but it comes with a lot of advantages and lower financial risk if you can find the right deal.

You can also lower risk by raising money to start a business. This is what I did. There was still a lot of risk and I can remember when our run rate fell below six months and I shut down all discretionary spending until we got cash flow positive. Conversely, people who convince private equity and/or venture capital to back them seem to have little or no pressure to make a profit (some of the logic is still sort of a mystery to me).

Another option is search equity, where a budding entrepreneur gets family offices, high net worth individuals, and private equity funds to bankroll them for a year or two, while they search for a business to buy, then funds the purchase. I ran into enough of these guys to conclude that it's not particularly rare. Search equity buyers do seem to have a lot of nonsense. ;-)

Quote:

3. You don't have to sell your company to get rich. A lot of great businesses are fantastic cash cows that wouldn't normally attract much private equity attention (right now the PE market is crazy so the parameters of what they're looking at is unusually broad... who knows how long that will last). And even if they do, they might not get attractive multiples. Like if you have a business that's kicking out half a million a year, would you rather sell it for 3-5 times earnings or have a business that kicks out half a million a year?

Excellent point. The goal of every entrepreneur should be to build a business that can run without him. When you reach the point where you can delegate the things you hate or are not very good at, and then work on what you enjoy and excel at, business becomes a lot of fun.

However, it's worth noting that every business owner exits. Some walk out. Others are carried out. With another Aggie, I've done a major study on business exits for a forthcoming book. There are all kinds of things that might trigger an exit. It can be as benign as a desire to retire to as tragic as the death of a spouse. So while a business owner might not plan on selling, preparing a business for a sale makes it easier to run and easier to exit if necessary.

Multiples of EBITDA are higher today thanks to private equity. The greater the EBITDA, the greater the multiple. A business that generates $500K of EBITDA is likely pretty small and may command a 3-5X multiple, but for the industries I've worked in, multiples typically range from 7X to 10X. That's not a cap. My company got more than that.

Quote:

4. A lot of people talk about entrepreneurship like it's table stakes to be working 80 hours a week, not having time for your family or hobbies, always on call, late nights, high stress, etc. A lot of new opportunities take this path, but you can design it differently. Most entrepreneurs I know that work insane hours do so because they love what they're doing and/or they're doing a bunch of stuff they're bad at that should be handed off to someone else.

In the early stages, lots of hours are part of the game. The company's too small for much delegation. But it's up to the entrepreneur where the hours are allocated, so it's easier to carve out time for important family events than many, inflexible corporate jobs.

No doubt, there is stress and risk. If you want low stress and low risk, get a government job.

You are absolutely right in your assessment that entrepreneurs work crazy hours because they love what they do. I've had business owners tell me that they don't really have hobbies because the business is their hobby.

You are also correct that many entrepreneurs are loathe to delegate, though this can be overcome. You are also correct that entrepreneurs can be more intentional about family.

I'm not trying to argue, but to illustrate another perspective. It's good to talk about the pros and cons. Of course, I'm pro entrepreneurship.

Gig 'Em!

I don't mean any offense by this, though it will probably offend some, but it's a good thing that entrepreneurship is limited to the few, not the many. We, entrepreneurs need employees to help us realize our dreams.
bagger05
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AG
This is good discussion. I haven't exited my business. Hopefully people find the differing perspectives valuable.
Quote:

There's no doubt entrepreneurship has been glorified. Think of the Horatio Alger stories, which were rags to riches stories about what is possible in America. Then, we have Musk, Jobs, Sam Walton, Beaver Aplin, Ray Kroc, Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Phil Knight, Zuckerberg, Gates, Dell, and Trump. Then there are the reality TV shows. These are superstars and they're no different that the superstars of sports being glorified. The difference is very few people can make it in the NFL, MBA, NBA, NHL, etc. Lots of people can make it in business, even if they never reach superstar level.

You are correct that entrepreneurship is not for everyone. However, I dealt with a lot more crap working in the Fortune 500 than working as an entrepreneur. I dealt with more working for a 100+ consulting firm. My father dealt with magnitudes more working as a college professor. There's crap everywhere. Plus, my experience is there's a lot more nonsense working in a publicly traded company.

Re: glorification, I think it's great that entrepreneurship has entered the cultural consciousness in a bigger way thanks to Shark Tank and the like. But I think it gives a misunderstanding of what entrepreneurship really is. When I hear a lot of people talking about entrepreneurship (especially young people) what they're really talking about is fundraising and those aren't the same thing.

Re: dealing with crap, it depends on what you define as crap. Great advice I think I've shared here is along the lines of "what you want to do isn't as relevant as what you're willing to tolerate." There are lots of jobs where you can just go home at the end of the day and not really think about it until you go back to the office. You don't have to work crazy hours, but every entrepreneur I know is in a state of always "kinda thinking about the company." This is a tax that some people don't want to pay.

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You can also lower risk by raising money to start a business. This is what I did. There was still a lot of risk and I can remember when our run rate fell below six months and I shut down all discretionary spending until we got cash flow positive. Conversely, people who convince private equity and/or venture capital to back them seem to have little or no pressure to make a profit (some of the logic is still sort of a mystery to me).

Another option is search equity, where a budding entrepreneur gets family offices, high net worth individuals, and private equity funds to bankroll them for a year or two, while they search for a business to buy, then funds the purchase. I ran into enough of these guys to conclude that it's not particularly rare. Search equity buyers do seem to have a lot of nonsense. ;-)

From the time I bought the company I've always been a 100% owner. Having other owners you're accountable to can be a good thing. In your example it probably helped you stay focused and disciplined when it came time to make tough decisions.

Most of my entrepreneur friends who have partners have messy partnerships. It makes me glad I am on my own.

Re: backing from VC and PE, I don't know at what point this becomes having a job again.

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Excellent point. The goal of every entrepreneur should be to build a business that can run without him. When you reach the point where you can delegate the things you hate or are not very good at, and then work on what you enjoy and excel at, business becomes a lot of fun.

However, it's worth noting that every business owner exits. Some walk out. Others are carried out. With another Aggie, I've done a major study on business exits for a forthcoming book. There are all kinds of things that might trigger an exit. It can be as benign as a desire to retire to as tragic as the death of a spouse. So while a business owner might not plan on selling, preparing a business for a sale makes it easier to run and easier to exit if necessary.

I agree with you here. Run it like you're going to sell it. Most of the time the things that will get you a premium price for your company are also good for your team and your customers. And as you said, everyone will exit. There are lots of sad stories of people who have to hang it up and then the business just dies. Also I think about what would happen if I passed away suddenly and now my wife has to deal with the business. Thankfully, everything would keep running fine. It took a lot of work to get it there.

And agreed about how fun business can be when you're only focusing on what you're good at and enjoy. It doesn't happen overnight but it's worth it.

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Multiples of EBITDA are higher today thanks to private equity. The greater the EBITDA, the greater the multiple. A business that generates $500K of EBITDA is likely pretty small and may command a 3-5X multiple, but for the industries I've worked in, multiples typically range from 7X to 10X. That's not a cap. My company got more than that.

A few thoughts here.

In the low middle market valuations are bananas. I think PE is starting to behave a little better but there's just so much money out there that people are getting crazy prices. Company X is worth $5MM but PE will pay $8MM to entice the owner to exit. They're banking they can do a few tweaks and then sell a company that's worth $10MM for $20MM to another PE firm who has to get money deployed. This works great as long as there's plenty of dry powder on the sidelines, but at some point it will come crashing down.

This is good news if you want to sell your company right now. Probably bad news if you're working for one of these companies (or are one of their customers) when chickens come home to roost. Who knows when that will be but I think it's coming.

In the $500k EBITDA example, everyone reaches a point that they don't want the next level of problems. If you're running a hair salon that isn't going to scale up as easily as software. So if you're running the hair salon, sure you could do the work that it would take to turn it into a platform or acquire other salons or whatever. Or you could just have a really good hair salon that makes $500k a year.
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In the early stages, lots of hours are part of the game. The company's too small for much delegation. But it's up to the entrepreneur where the hours are allocated, so it's easier to carve out time for important family events than many, inflexible corporate jobs.

No doubt, there is stress and risk. If you want low stress and low risk, get a government job.

You are absolutely right in your assessment that entrepreneurs work crazy hours because they love what they do. I've had business owners tell me that they don't really have hobbies because the business is their hobby.

You are also correct that many entrepreneurs are loathe to delegate, though this can be overcome. You are also correct that entrepreneurs can be more intentional about family.

I'm not trying to argue, but to illustrate another perspective. It's good to talk about the pros and cons. Of course, I'm pro entrepreneurship.

A lot of the long hours stuff is hustle culture BS.

Most entrepreneurs learn that they can hand things off and gladly give away a bunch of stuff they don't like to do. But the company usually gets stuck when the entrepreneur refuses to let go of something they're good at and enjoy. This is where the nastiest bottlenecks usually show up.

I'm also pro-entrepreneurship. I'm pretty ruined and it's hard to imagine doing anything else.
cgh1999
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AG
What metrics do you track regularly to make sure you're on track to become a millionaire or better...a texags millionaire?

I've always been OCD about money and staying on top of what i've got and what i'm doing with it. I have multiple spreadsheets that I update regularly to track the following:

- Personal Financial Statement (Assets and Liabilities - including equity in assets to determine net worth)
- Income / Income Tax History Spreadsheet: I track my income and tax liability on an annual basis.
- Net Worth: Updated quarterly since 2016

The net worth chart is fascinating to me when I overlay with my income. I've never had more than two consecutive quarters where my Net Worth dropped. Losses in my stock portfolio were usually offset by income and continuous reinvestment helped aid in recovery after those quarterly declines.

I won't profess to doing everything right...or even close, but graphed out over a 9 year period the chart moves consistently up and to the right! I might actually be able to pull off this retirement thing sooner rather than later.
Caliber
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AG
cgh1999 said:

What metrics do you track regularly to make sure you're on track to become a millionaire or better...a texags millionaire?

I've always been OCD about money and staying on top of what i've got and what i'm doing with it. I have multiple spreadsheets that I update regularly to track the following:

- Personal Financial Statement (Assets and Liabilities - including equity in assets to determine net worth)
- Income / Income Tax History Spreadsheet: I track my income and tax liability on an annual basis.
- Net Worth: Updated quarterly since 2016

The net worth chart is fascinating to me when I overlay with my income. I've never had more than two consecutive quarters where my Net Worth dropped. Losses in my stock portfolio were usually offset by income and continuous reinvestment helped aid in recovery after those quarterly declines.

I won't profess to doing everything right...or even close, but graphed out over a 9 year period the chart moves consistently up and to the right! I might actually be able to pull off this retirement thing sooner rather than later.

If it isn't already covered under "Personal Financial Statement", I would add a basic expense tracking to that to understand where money is going and to ultimately know how much you need to replace in retirement.
62strat
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cgh1999 said:

What metrics do you track regularly to make sure you're on track to become a millionaire or better...a texags millionaire?


.

Is this a trick question?

Track assets and liabilities. The difference is your net worth. Other metrics can surely be tracked, but are not needed.

I input data once a year on Jan 1, started in 2010. Though my profit sharing pays in march, so I add that to the previous Jan 1.
cgh1999
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62strat said:

cgh1999 said:

What metrics do you track regularly to make sure you're on track to become a millionaire or better...a texags millionaire?


.

Is this a trick question?

Track assets and liabilities. The difference is your net worth. Other metrics can surely be tracked, but are not needed.

I input data once a year on Jan 1, started in 2010. Though my profit sharing pays in march, so I add that to the previous Jan 1.


Not a trick question. In addition to assets minus liabilities, I track multiple other things that generate the assets and liabilities. It's motivating to have a goal and push for it…but I use other metrics to determine if I'm being effective in that pursuit.

Responding to Caliber - I have a very loose tracking of income/expense. I know my big expenses and "budget" for that...but I gave up tracking the day to day crap a long time ago. Fortunately my income/investment returns have historically surpassed spending by a wide margin.
YouBet
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I have a Net Worth spreadsheet that lets me track growth (declines) down to the account level. And then I can group accounts however I want - ex: Tax Advantaged Investments vs Taxable Investments.

I can then enter a Baseline or Reference date and compare growth between that date and a second comparison date to see growth for each Group>Account over whatever time period I wish. Balances are updated daily so I can pick whatever dates I want to compare.
Daytona22
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Balances updated daily? Do you have some kind of macro pulling in this data? There's no way I could track this info to that level of detail.

I track net worth on a yearly basis as of 12/31 of that year. I have a few ways to see all my investment accounts in one place to look at periodically to see which direction it's tracking. I also have all my accounting info in quickbooks to track income/expenses.
AggieFrog
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I use Monarch to keep track of all accounts / net worth. Does a pretty good job after moving from Mint.
TheGifGuy
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Have the same, works great!
YouBet
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Daytona22 said:

Balances updated daily? Do you have some kind of macro pulling in this data? There's no way I could track this info to that level of detail.

I track net worth on a yearly basis as of 12/31 of that year. I have a few ways to see all my investment accounts in one place to look at periodically to see which direction it's tracking. I also have all my accounting info in quickbooks to track income/expenses.


Yes, I'm using Tiller which is a spreadsheet based personal finance app that aggregates your financial data from all of your accounts like most other solutions. The primary difference with Tiller and all of the other solutions out there is the fact that it's spreadsheet based which means you can then build and customize your own stuff off of their core product.

If you like tinkering with spreadsheets and want a head start on pre-built sheets, then I highly recommend it. It also has a good user community who build s/s mods you can download for free.

If you are not a s/s person, then I don't recommend it.
DonaldFDraper
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AggieFrog said:

I use Monarch to keep track of all accounts / net worth. Does a pretty good job after moving from Mint.

I'm growing tired of Empower (formerly Personal Capital). Constant integration issues.

Feel like it's worth the $100 / year?
AggieFrog
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DonaldFDraper said:

AggieFrog said:

I use Monarch to keep track of all accounts / net worth. Does a pretty good job after moving from Mint.

I'm growing tired of Empower (formerly Personal Capital). Constant integration issues.

Feel like it's worth the $100 / year?

I think so - I've tried Empower, used Mint for years, and tried Copilot as well. Monarch is the best I've used yet. Still has some connection issues with a handful of accounts, but it's mostly just my mortgage company (have to update the login every few months). Works well with Empower retirement, Schwab, Chase, etc. Does integrate with Apple Mastercard account and has a nice iOS app and website.

Also seems to do a better job than most at auto-categorizing transactions.
Proposition Joe
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Simplifi
AgsMyDude
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DonaldFDraper said:

AggieFrog said:

I use Monarch to keep track of all accounts / net worth. Does a pretty good job after moving from Mint.

I'm growing tired of Empower (formerly Personal Capital). Constant integration issues.

Feel like it's worth the $100 / year?

I personally do. There are a lot of good features, and it really helps visualize where everything is going. Identifying trends is easy as well.
SockMcSock
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SockMcSock said:

Class of '10
Business owner for 7+ years
Married with kids - wife has corporate job

Net worth - $4.75m

Pretty good mix between the house ($1m+ equity in it), retirement funds (401k's, IRA's), HYSA's. CD's, and speculative stock trading (800k+ in that account).

Net worth - $6.5m+

Good year for biz + all the investment accounts have been on a tear
chrisfield
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40% growth in 18 months is incredible. Well done.
RightWingConspirator
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This post really resonates with me. It's almost a carbon copy of my life right now and my boss. In fact, my boss has called a very cryptic meeting with me and HR today. It sucks, but nothing I can do about it now. We've saved pretty aggressively and now sit close to $4.5MM in NW. I'm 52. I was hoping to get my youngest out of high school before I pull the trigger, but I can't discount the fact that my boss may just pull the trigger for me. My biggest concern is how do we get to at least 55 so we have access to 401K, etc. I have a pension north of $1MM in value and my after tax funds not including pension sit somewhere north of $1.2MM so I guess I could start pulling from them if I have to, but was trying to avoid. It sucks but it's been a good run and working O&G has allowed me to stuff my coffers sufficiently to survive.
Quinn
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Best of luck with whatever the outcome is, RWC. What are you going to do regarding your diabetes supplies?
LMCane
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I would second this and push back against the "you have to start your own business and can't work for the man if you want to become a millionaire"

particularly those of us in the corporate legal world- slow and steady has gotten the job done as long as you are patient and live below your means.


Google AI

"Many individuals achieve millionaire status through investing.

According to the UBS Global Wealth Report 2025, there are 23.8 million millionaires in the US as of 2024, representing about 1 in 15 people. This figure includes those who built wealth through investing, homeownership, and saving.

In 2024, the US added 379,000 new millionaires, or about 1,000 new millionaires each day. This growth was driven largely by market appreciation, particularly in the stock market and the rise of AI investments.
As of the third quarter of 2024, approximately 544,000 Americans had a million dollars or more in their 401(k) accounts, nearly a 10% increase from the previous quarter.

Investing Habits of Millionaires

Investing in retirement plans: Studies show that 80% of millionaires surveyed invested in their company's 401(k).

Investing outside of workplace plans: Three out of four millionaires surveyed also invested beyond their company retirement plans.

Long-term and consistent investing:
Seventy-five percent of millionaires credit their success to regular, consistent investing over a long period.

Diversification: Millionaires typically invest in a well-diversified portfolio that may include stocks, bonds, ETFs, and real estate.

Avoiding high risks:
Millionaires tend to stay away from high-risk investments like single stocks, which were not cited as a major factor in their success.
YouBet
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RightWingConspirator said:

This post really resonates with me. It's almost a carbon copy of my life right now and my boss. In fact, my boss has called a very cryptic meeting with me and HR today. It sucks, but nothing I can do about it now. We've saved pretty aggressively and now sit close to $4.5MM in NW. I'm 52. I was hoping to get my youngest out of high school before I pull the trigger, but I can't discount the fact that my boss may just pull the trigger for me. My biggest concern is how do we get to at least 55 so we have access to 401K, etc. I have a pension north of $1MM in value and my after tax funds not including pension sit somewhere north of $1.2MM so I guess I could start pulling from them if I have to, but was trying to avoid. It sucks but it's been a good run and working O&G has allowed me to stuff my coffers sufficiently to survive.


Hope it goes well or goes the way you want it to go. It's frustrating and a bit demoralizing at first, but you will move on and realize you don't really care after it's over (if you are being put to pasture that is).

On the 401k, the rule of 55 only applies if you leave at age 55 or after so I don't think that is going to be in the cards.

Biggest hurdle will be healthcare unless your wife works and you can jump to hers. That's my biggest stress point currently. Cobra is insanely expensive as is Obamacare which I knew going into this, but it's still stressful.

I signed up for Medishare to test those waters. It's active for us as of today, but my initial research shows it to have some limitations on doctors that participate just like Obamacare, but it's way, way cheaper at least...to the tune of about $1K per month cheaper with equivalent deductibles.
RightWingConspirator
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I do get a benefit from my work that would probably cap my insurance costs to about $18k/year. Not great, but not catastrophic either.
MavsAg
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Wife (33) and I (37) finally broke the millionaire barrier this summer. We have a one year old and will get working on number two shortly. Been a long road to get here. I left my job two weeks before Covid to start my own thing with a couple of other guys. Took us two years to finally raise the money and get going. We'll complete our payments to our investor at the end of the year and then can finally start participating in distributions which will increase our personal income significantly.

Retirement: $750k
Brokerage: $170k
Cash: $215k
Property: $0 (renting)

Didn't include the equity in my company because we still haven't completed the payments to our investors and until that happens it won't feel real to me. Not to mention, it's an OFS company so it could all go to zero tomorrow.

I certainly don't "feel" like a millionaire. Saving up for a house in this market is just so crazy. I feel like we are in a great spot financially, but buying a house in a good neighborhood would be a huge increase in our monthly housing budget. We'll be able to make it work since we have saved for so long. I just feel for the typical W-2 employees who didn't buy before 2022.
 
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