Bewildering to me that you can see a player that puts up those numbers and gets a team to the finals, while injured, and say maybe you build around Austin Reeves. Wtf. You add a rim protector who can score 15 pts efficiently, 2 3&D guys, and you go, pure and simple. In all fairness, we would get glimpses of Luka trying on D and those moments were glorious, but still, the conversation is insane to me.

This is unbelievable.

You're not wrong, and again the Cardinal sin of it all was getting a half-broken, over 30 superstar, Max Christie (really good player tbh, no offense Max), and a 2029 unprotected pick from the Lakers. And hey, the Lakers might be dog crap come 2029, because I don't think they know what they are doing whatsoever, but only that pick and no Austin Reeves is beyond hard to figure out.

Where I disagree some is that you can compensate some for his lack of defensive skill, effort and ability. Sure, in the regular season you can get away with it a bit by surrounding him with plus defending, length and shooting. Those guys playing a different team every single night will more times than not pick him up. In the playoffs is where things fall apart in my opinion. When you have to play the same team three, four, five, six and seven times in a row, that team and their coaching staff in today's era of basketball are going to attack him like white on rice over and over and over again.

Offensive ratings are through the roof across the league and athleticism is as high as its ever been, and I find it hard to believe that with the way the West looks with OKC, San Antonio, Houston, Denver, Minnesota and heck even Phoenix, that Luka wouldn't be taken out back and abused game after game even if he was still on the Mavs surrounded by the guys he was.

So you think that the offensive games of all teams have gotten so much better in 2 years that the Mavs couldn't make the Finals with Luka now? We literally had the 4-5th ranked D in the league after the trades the year we made the finals. That was with Luka. And our D was fine in the playoffs during the Finals run (and it was offense that struggled mightily against Boston, our defense wasn't bad). No one was able to take Luka to the woodshed and beat us becuase of that.

I complained about his defense/effort (mainly his effort all the time). But let's please not start acting like we needed to get rid of him and the only thing bad about the trade was that we didn't get enough back. That's insane.

10 players played between 22 and 29 minutes in tonight's victory over Utah.

Cisse looks like he can be a nice backup big. Athletic freak and sprints up and down the court.

Utah is really, really...really bad.

quit winning!

Tksymm7 said:

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Utah is really, really...really bad.

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They have sat Markanen for "illness" over the past couple games. That's an organization that understands how to tank.

They are basically useless on offense without him. It's just George trying to carry them by himself.

Vessel said:

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Tksymm7 said:

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Utah is really, really...really bad.

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They have sat Markanen for "illness" over the past couple games. That's an organization that understands how to tank.

They are basically useless on offense without him. It's just George trying to carry them by himself.

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If their draft pick isn't top 8 if they lose it to Oklahoma City.

They have no choice but to tank

94chem said:

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PatAg said:

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South Platte said:

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Luka and defense.

What are some NBA champions whose best player was bad on defense? Magic? Curry? It's a pretty short list I'm sure.

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the ****ing 2011 mavericks
when you have a player who is ELITE in scoring and other areas on offense, you build your team to play to their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses
Which we did for Dirk, and we did for Luka

Lot of idiots essentially making up stats no one has ever tracked or cared about

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Measuring a top 10 all time scorer by defense is about as useful as Tom Brady's 40 time.

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Except Tom Brady can win the Super Bowl without ever running. To win a championship Luka HAS to play half the game on defense.

If Luka wants to win he has to learn to at a bare minimum give some effort on defense. He can't be a total sieve.

We'll never know but I honestly believe the healthy roster with Luka would have won last year. Seeing the Pacers, a bad defensive team, take the Thunder to 7 games was insane. Luka+Kyrie+Klay/Naji+PJ+Lively/Gafford would have been the defending champs imo.

M.C. Swag said:

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We'll never know but I honestly believe the healthy roster with Luka would have won last year. Seeing the Pacers, a bad defensive team, take the Thunder to 7 games was insane. Luka+Kyrie+Klay/Naji+PJ+Lively/Gafford would have been the defending champs imo.

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Yep. I think we would have (or at least would have had a great shot, which is all you can ask). Adding naji to our finals roster would have been huge (and less so with klay).

mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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We'll never know but I honestly believe the healthy roster with Luka would have won last year. Seeing the Pacers, a bad defensive team, take the Thunder to 7 games was insane. Luka+Kyrie+Klay/Naji+PJ+Lively/Gafford would have been the defending champs imo.

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Yep. I think we would have (or at least would have had a great shot, which is all you can ask). Adding naji to our finals roster would have been huge (and less so with klay).

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And with Grimes still on the roster? They had a legit shot

Utah…so gross

They are stunningly awful. It always shocks me how bad some of these team are.

For the tank watch, I'm thinking 7th is probably the best the Mavs can do at this point. Last week they showed they can't hang with whatever Utah or Brooklyn are up to. Still, 7th seed is ~33% odds at Top 4 which isn't bad. It also means a likely Top 8 at minimum pick. I don't see any way to out-tank Utah, Brooklyn, Indiana, Washington, or Sacramento. I still think New Orleans makes a little run down the stretch and ends up in that 6th spot, especially at the end of the season when things get weird. I don't think they can get above the Mavericks though.

The top 4 picks seem to have a consensus, all of those guys showing some potential All Star or better upside. The next 4 to 8 picks have a lot of variability to them, but there are some interesting guard prospects in there. Probably some busts, but I would guess 1 or 2 of them have All Star upside.

Yeah, this year has a really good and pretty deep guard crop, which is good for Dallas. Even if you don't get Peterson, Kingston Flemmings (from San Antonio, at UH) looks great. Darius Acuff is the latest Coach Cal star guard. Mikal Brown is kind of divisive in the draft community and his shooting is a question. Labaron Philon is putting up big numbers at Bama. Baylor's SG/SF in Carr (elite shooter) and Tounde Yessoufou (physical defender) could both fit in.

Hornets are in an interesting place, because they want to get their young guys a lot of run, but they may be too good to really tank if they do. Their net rating is 0.0, which means they should be closer to a .500 team.

I agree, Pelicans should make some sort of run, but Queen isn't looking as good lately, their defense is awful, and they still have Jordan Poole. If Zion plays, they could win some games, but Dallas already has 7 more wins than they do.

Ranking top 6 should be the goal. That's almost 40% for top 4 then about 50% at 7 or 8.

Completely agree. I think Indiana has the inside track to the top odds (they are an abomination without Haliburton) because New Orleans has no incentive to sit dudes down the stretch and really tank. The only thing that could throw a wrench in it is if they trade Trey Murphy, which they probably will. So they could just be a crime against humanity after that.

After that I think the only team we could pass is maybe the Hornets. They suck, but they have a lot of young talent on that team that I think just doesn't want to be horrible down the stretch. Everyone else in front of us is grotesque, and we just simply are not that bad. We could get worse by trading Klay and Kaleb Martin and more, but that feels very difficult, and again they cannot afford to strip this thing bare.

The one team I would watch out for above us is Memphis. If they really do trade JJJ and Ja, they are also going to be disgustingly bad.

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The only thing that could throw a wrench in it is if they trade Trey Murphy, which they probably will.

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Trading Murphy doesn't make sense for him. He is a perfect fit with Queen, Fears, and Herb Jones. Someone would have to pay way over value for him, and I don't think anyone does that. On a contending team, I don't think he is any better than 3rd option - do you want to pay 3-4 firsts for your 3rd option? I think Murphy being traded is highly unlikely. Same with Herb Jones. Zion is probably more likely.

See that was my thoughts as well. I think he's a great piece for where they're at as a team right now. Only 25, really starting to come into his own, and I think would help their young guys like Queen, Fears and Jones. I personally would hold onto him and get Zion outta dodge for literally whatever I could get, but the things I have read said he's likely going to receive offers and they'll listen. Who knows though with the NBA. They all float around complete BS and have Chams and Woj as their mouthpieces.

I know where you're going with this hahah. But in all seriousness, how is Indiana being THIS BAD not ringing more fire alarms? Yes, Haliburton is awesome and they are an extremely system oriented team that revolves around him, but going from a very very good team last year to being this bad is shocking.

They have been pretty beat up across the board. That said, while I do think Carlisle is a very good coach in the right situation, I think he's kind of an ornery disaster in others. With their situation this year, I think they are getting the latter.

Tksymm7 said:

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I know where you're going with this hahah. But in all seriousness, how is Indiana being THIS BAD not ringing more fire alarms? Yes, Haliburton is awesome and they are an extremely system oriented team that revolves around him, but going from a very very good team last year to being this bad is shocking.

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Because two days before game 7, New Orleans inexplicably gave Indiana their 2026 1st round pick back in exchange for the 23rd pick in last year's draft. So they knew the minute Hali went down they would 1000% tank and they let Myles Turner walk for free.

If they didn't have their 2026 1st back, they would be better. Not good, but better.

In an alternate universe, New Orleans has their own pick and Indiana's pick in this draft and Derik Queen is on the Hawks.

I'm sure we'll blow this massive lead because I'm posting this…. This team feels like it's too good to be contending for a bottom 8 spot in the league. Klay starting to heat up offensively. The point of attack defense has improved with Martin playing more. Naji and Christie have ascended. Cisse is a legitimate backup big man.

Additionally, a part of me would be really bummed to not see AD, Flagg, and Kyrie not share the floor.

I know factually that AD will never be healthy and we should get whatever we can for him. But the irrational fan in me wants to see what this team can do in the play in, possibly in a playoff series, and as a theoretically healthy team next year.

Apparently Max Christie just decided to go nuclear tonight.

Geez. Guess we're just not gonna tank