That's why you hire consultants…. Blame for failure….

Shhh…don't be letting the secret out.

HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

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Shhh…don't be letting the secret out.

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There's good money to be made in screwing things up. I know if I lost my customer $5M, we'd be getting sued, and my ass would be fired, post haste.

I'd laugh if I wasn't footing the bill for another Keystone Kops episode.

WHEN WILL THIS CRAP STOP?

4 places open for Fall 2024. If you have 4 votes on the Council, you can get it stopped.
https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/elections

My two cents on the use of the property now. A nice dog park was mentioned. Money was already spent on the infrastructure and slab work for a concession area and restrooms. Partner with a place like Mutts Cantina and make it a dog park and turn the concessions into a bar.

Love it!
It could also be an outdoor cornhole competition space.

Captn_Ag05 said:

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My two cents on the use of the property now. A nice dog park was mentioned. Money was already spent on the infrastructure and slab work for a concession area and restrooms. Partner with a place like Mutts Cantina and make it a dog park and turn the concessions into a bar.

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this is hilarious.

Looks like a good old fashioned boondoggle to me.

A perfect waste of FIVE MILLION of OUR tax dollars.

I want a refund.

Since its time to get creative with the property....

Drones are getting more popular, until the City comes up with some other much more expensive plan for the property, how about a drone park?

Finish the bathrooms. Add some electric outlets for charging. Leave the parking the gravel parking that the contractor used, bring out some old culverts, and whatever to create obstacles to fly through and around.

It would be a one of a kind park that might even draw in some tourists if they hold competitions for amateur operators and training seminars for professionals that now use drones (like first responders).

MeKnowNot said:

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Since its time to get creative with the property....

Drones are getting more popular, until the City comes up with some other much more expensive plan for the property, how about a drone park?

Finish the bathrooms. Add some electric outlets for charging. Leave the parking the gravel parking that the contractor used, bring out some old culverts, and whatever to create obstacles to fly through and around.

It would be a one of a kind park that might even draw in some tourists if they hold competitions for amateur operators and training seminars for professionals that now use drones (like first responders).

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Then when you graduate from "amateur" to military contractor, you can head over to RELLIS for their drone course.

That pesky insufficient soil how dare it get changed by the rain.
I know several large projects that have been shut down because the rains changed the soil.
Happens all of the time with no fault attributed to anyone.

hopeandrealchange said:

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That pesky insufficient soil how dare it get changed by the rain.
I know several large projects that have been shut down because the rains changed the soil.
Happens all of the time with no fault attributed to anyone.

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or lack of rain.

Some one go grab 4 or 5 buckets of that darn pesky soil then when the city tries for force a project on the citizens (YMCA, Convention center, etc.) dump some of that soil on the site. Brilliant !!!

Why couldn't they put fly ash or lime on the soil to stabilize it?

Lime was discussed. They did a test with lime and it worked to stabilize it, but the cost estimate was over $10 million to do that on all of the soil that needed to be addressed.

ratfacemcdougal said:

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Some one go grab 4 or 5 buckets of that darn pesky soil then when the city tries for force a project on the citizens (YMCA, Convention center, etc.) dump some of that soil on the site. Brilliant !!!

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On it. You in, Tibbers?

hopeandrealchange said:

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That pesky insufficient soil how dare it get changed by the rain.
I know several large projects that have been shut down because the rains changed the soil.
Happens all of the time with no fault attributed to anyone.

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unless there was some major erosion issue from drainage creating gullies I don't see how rain would have messed up anything in this situation, it looks like there wasn't enough soil investigations done to determine the limiting factors or problems with the site

Captn_Ag05 said:

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My two cents on the use of the property now. A nice dog park was mentioned. Money was already spent on the infrastructure and slab work for a concession area and restrooms. Partner with a place like Mutts Cantina and make it a dog park and turn the concessions into a bar.

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I was going to suggest MId-Town Ice House but I like your idea better!

This is largely correct, and happened as a result of consultant error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

If you want to see the entire presentation and discussion go to CSTX Channel 19 and scroll to time mark 53 minutes and 50 seconds, 53:50.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, I understand that. I signed up for it. Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

Bob Yancy said:

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This is largely correct, and happened as a result of contractor error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

If you want to see the entire presentation and discussion go to CSTX Channel 19 and scroll to time mark 53 minutes and 50 seconds, 53:50.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, contractor error notwithstanding. I understand that. I signed up for it.

Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

---

Respectfully, who is the developer? The COCS, correct? So, ultimately they are the ones to blame. Greater and more exhaustive due diligence should have been performed (at the direction of the developer) because of the site's history. Blaming the geotechnical outfit or whoever, is cheap and counterproductive. If COCS wants to develop then they have to play the game the right way like the way all of us other developers have to play it. Again, if this were to happen to a private developer, high likelihood they would be out of business and declaring bankruptcy.

Step one is recognizing whose money was spent, our money as taxpayers, and falling on that sword and saying sorry. If no fault is admitted and owned up to, then it will happen again.

Cheers,

MS08 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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This is largely correct, and happened as a result of contractor error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

If you want to see the entire presentation and discussion go to CSTX Channel 19 and scroll to time mark 53 minutes and 50 seconds, 53:50.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, contractor error notwithstanding. I understand that. I signed up for it.

Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

---

Respectfully, who is the developer? The COCS, correct? So, ultimately they are the ones to blame. Greater and more exhaustive due diligence should have been performed (at the direction of the developer) because of the site's history. Blaming the geotechnical outfit or whoever, is cheap and counterproductive. If COCS wants to develop then they have to play the game the right way like the way all of us other developers have to play it. Again, if this were to happen to a private developer, high likelihood they would be out of business and declaring bankruptcy.

Step one is recognizing whose money was spent, our money as taxpayers, and falling on that sword and saying sorry. If no fault is admitted and owned up to, then it will happen again.

Cheers,

---

HEAR HEAR

Did they show proof of the error, or did they just say there was an error?
How about we post the 2019 geo report in full with recommendations so we can see who is really at fault?

Several sources say the geo report gave these recommendations. So as I asked earlier in the thread, who was the one that decided not to heed their recommendations? Somebody needs to be held responsible, this is negligence with our tax money.

Question... could the citizens of College Station file a class action suit against the city for improper use of taxpayer fund?

histag10 said:

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Question... could the citizens of College Station file a class action suit against the city for improper use of taxpayer fund?

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I just wonder where the funds might come from to fund a lost suit?
They have us by the short and curlies until more than several thousand of our residents vote.

Bob Yancy said:

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This is largely correct, and happened as a result of contractor error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, contractor error notwithstanding. I understand that. I signed up for it.

Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

---

Bob,

I think the drone (flying) course is an interesting idea. Not sure if this is the right site or what you actually need for such a facility, but it would seem to go well with the eSports at the old Macy's. It could be worth the effort to make CoCS a destination (at least regionally) for esports/drone racing/etc.

Should be pretty easy to take advantage of TAMU Engineering to supercharge that and even some future partnerships with defense contractors that are already plugging into RELLIS. Maybe even Amazon with their drone delivery facility.

BTW, if you do tap into the drone flying opportunity, might also consider RC racing on the ground. You probably don't want a bunch of RC cars running around during a drone racing event or vice versa, but since the drones are in the air and the RC cars are on the ground, simple enough to overlap.

Trust me, I'm from the government and I am here to help you.

I watched the council meeting video and have a question about the geo report. Hopefully someone in that field can answer. The report stated that much of the soil was not suitable but it was due to heavier than normal rains that made it unstable, but when it dried out it would be okay. The project construction then began. My question is, what would happen in the future when heavy rains occurred? Once the base for the artificial fields were constructed, would that make them impervious to any soil fluctuations underneath? Would the drainage systems under the fields direct excess water away from underlying soils , keeping them stable? It would seem that very heavy rain would at least have some infiltration and effect, causing future problems, but am not a geo tech guy.

Bob Yancy said:

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This is largely correct, and happened as a result of contractor error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

If you want to see the entire presentation and discussion go to CSTX Channel 19 and scroll to time mark 53 minutes and 50 seconds, 53:50.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, contractor error notwithstanding. I understand that. I signed up for it.

Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

---

Contractor error? You are saying that the contractor's scope included ordering Geotech and other engineering reports? Was the contractor the developer and GC on this project, because while that is not unheard of, it is not very common. Was there not an owner's rep working on behalf of the city to fully scrub all environmental and geotech assessments, and in turn make sure that the contractor adhered to industry standard and recommended specs based on these findings before moving dirt. I'm not saying you are incorrect in your claim that it was contractor error, but something just isn't adding up here. The city has a city engineer in house. The city has a building and construction department in house. It seems to me that if the people we pay with our tax dollars were actually diligent and punctilious in performing their jobs, we could have averted a lot of this.

MS08 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

---

This is largely correct, and happened as a result of contractor error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

If you want to see the entire presentation and discussion go to CSTX Channel 19 and scroll to time mark 53 minutes and 50 seconds, 53:50.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, contractor error notwithstanding. I understand that. I signed up for it.

Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

---

Respectfully, who is the developer? The COCS, correct? So, ultimately they are the ones to blame. Greater and more exhaustive due diligence should have been performed (at the direction of the developer) because of the site's history. Blaming the geotechnical outfit or whoever, is cheap and counterproductive. If COCS wants to develop then they have to play the game the right way like the way all of us other developers have to play it. Again, if this were to happen to a private developer, high likelihood they would be out of business and declaring bankruptcy.

Step one is recognizing whose money was spent, our money as taxpayers, and falling on that sword and saying sorry. If no fault is admitted and owned up to, then it will happen again.

Cheers,

---

The Rock Prairie design contract that was approved last night included only ten, 10' borings for about 2 miles of road.

Given that the City knows that soils are a problem in this area, is that enough borings and are the deep enough so that we don't have big change orders when they start rebuilding Rock Prairie east?

MeKnowNot said:

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MS08 said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

This is largely correct, and happened as a result of contractor error and not city hall. Beyond that, I'm very limited in what I can report as we go about the process of salvaging what we can for all of us, the taxpayers. I can only assure you all that is exactly what will be done.

If you want to see the entire presentation and discussion go to CSTX Channel 19 and scroll to time mark 53 minutes and 50 seconds, 53:50.

I know there will be a lot of criticism, contractor error notwithstanding. I understand that. I signed up for it.

Along the way, if you guys have any constructive suggestions on what we do with the site going forward, I'd love to hear it.

Respectfully

---

Respectfully, who is the developer? The COCS, correct? So, ultimately they are the ones to blame. Greater and more exhaustive due diligence should have been performed (at the direction of the developer) because of the site's history. Blaming the geotechnical outfit or whoever, is cheap and counterproductive. If COCS wants to develop then they have to play the game the right way like the way all of us other developers have to play it. Again, if this were to happen to a private developer, high likelihood they would be out of business and declaring bankruptcy.

Step one is recognizing whose money was spent, our money as taxpayers, and falling on that sword and saying sorry. If no fault is admitted and owned up to, then it will happen again.

Cheers,

---

The Rock Prairie design contract that was approved last night included only ten, 10' borings for about 2 miles of road.

Given that the City knows that soils are a problem in this area, is that enough borings and are the deep enough so that we don't have big change orders when they start rebuilding Rock Prairie east?

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No. Especially considering the checkered past of the soil in this area and this negligent blunder. It does not cost that much more to go deeper, especially since drillers are already mobilizing no matter if it's 10' or 15' or 20'. Ten borings at 10' deep plus lab testing and report should be an under $10k job. Going to 15' or 20' keeps it under $20k. Extremely Small price to pay for greater understanding and peace of mind and stewardship. I recently had 16 borings done on a site at 15' depth for right at $10k total.

Edit: and doing only 10 borings for 2 miles of road is not sufficient IMO. That is not enough of a sample size considering that linear distance. Everything about the number of borings and depth of borings sounds borderline, like the absolute bare minimum possible.

Soil plasticity and what's going on at the ballpark are 2 different things. The ballpark is uncompacted soil with no consistency due to the nature it was placed. Again, it was a borrow pit and the remediation fill came from countless locations. There are no bridge structures on rock prairie and soil consistency should be expected. Lime series will be run after subgrade elevations are achieved.

SCHTICK00 said:

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Soil plasticity and what's going on at the ballpark are 2 different things. The ballpark is uncompacted soil with no consistency due to the nature it was placed. Again, it was a borrow pit and the remediation fill came from countless locations. There are no bridge structures on rock prairie and soil consistency should be expected. Lime series will be run after subgrade elevations are achieved.

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Do you have other history/evidence? Regardless, shouldn't the 2019 geotech survey picked up that type of fill activity?

You sound like you know a lot about this area. Why didn't you sound the alarm before we spent $5M?

Throwing hand grenades doesn't help.

HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

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Throwing hand grenades doesn't help.

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Scht made the claim that the area had been used as a borrow pit.

Just asking to back-up this claim as the City apparently did not know this prior to design/construction.