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Washington county CWD breeder/"depopulation"

4,078 Views | 63 Replies | Last: 18 days ago by MouthBQ98
GSS
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Fifty cases of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)

Fifty cases of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) were reported after a deer herd depopulation operation this summer at the location of Washington County's first recorded case, but state officials say those cases were all contained to the original site.

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) District 9 Leader Bobby Eichler informed Washington County Commissioners on Tuesday that 158 adult deer and 63 fawns were euthanized as part of the operation. The depopulation occurred in the overnight hours between August 5th and 6th at the deer-breeding facility north of Brenham, where the county's first case of CWD was reported in early 2023 in a doe that was born in the facility.

Eichler said the 50 positive cases represented roughly a third of the facility's adult herd the fawns, none older than 5 months of age, were not tested and were spread across all age groups and both sexes. He said at the time of the depopulation, 72 deer were missing from the reported herd inventory and were presumed dead.

(That's a helluva presumption)
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txags92
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GSS said:

Fifty cases of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)

Fifty cases of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) were reported after a deer herd depopulation operation this summer at the location of Washington County's first recorded case, but state officials say those cases were all contained to the original site.

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) District 9 Leader Bobby Eichler informed Washington County Commissioners on Tuesday that 158 adult deer and 63 fawns were euthanized as part of the operation. The depopulation occurred in the overnight hours between August 5th and 6th at the deer-breeding facility north of Brenham, where the county's first case of CWD was reported in early 2023 in a doe that was born in the facility.

Eichler said the 50 positive cases represented roughly a third of the facility's adult herd the fawns, none older than 5 months of age, were not tested and were spread across all age groups and both sexes. He said at the time of the depopulation, 72 deer were missing from the reported herd inventory and were presumed dead.

(That's a helluva presumption)

I hope that presumption is just because they can't yet prove otherwise, but that is a big number to have "missing" at a breeder facility.
Yesterday
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I'm all for high fenced ranches and improving deer genetics etc but it's really hard to ignore the fact that this is happening primarily with deer breeders.
mpl35
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In before the "Dr. Deer says" crowd shows up.
txags92
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mpl35 said:

In before the "Dr. Deer says" crowd shows up.

They will be here shortly to tell us how this was an unnecessary depop because the breeder was clearly trying to save the wild herd in Texas by breeding CWD immune deer and letting 72 of them "go missing".
AstroAggie15
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Hope the breeder goes out of business.
Lonestar_Ag09
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Weird that they are doing a mass slaughter berfore testing...they now have a test that can detect it in the rectum without killing...but according to the report I heard it takes time for CWD to be evident there.
Queso1
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Yesterday said:

I'm all for high fenced ranches and improving deer genetics etc but it's really hard to ignore the fact that this is happening primarily with deer breeders.


Are they really improving genetics or are they just breeding the genetics that trophy hunters want? I do not believe these are the same thing.
I will no longer discuss politics with you. I reject your premises and world view. I am finished trying to compromise with you.
agsalaska
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Queso1 said:

Yesterday said:

I'm all for high fenced ranches and improving deer genetics etc but it's really hard to ignore the fact that this is happening primarily with deer breeders.


Are they really improving genetics or are they just breeding the genetics that trophy hunters want? I do not believe these are the same thing.


This times eleventy million.

The idea that they are 'improving genetics' is absurd.

Gunny456
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This. Lots more to improving your deer herd genetics wise than just antlers.
HTownAg98
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Lonestar_Ag09 said:

Weird that they are doing a mass slaughter berfore testing...they now have a test that can detect it in the rectum without killing...but according to the report I heard it takes time for CWD to be evident there.

The current protocol is that if cwd is detected in a captive herd (breeding operation), all the animals are killed and brain stem tissue samples are collected for testing.

The more shocking thing here is 72 animals not being accounted for.
txags92
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Lonestar_Ag09 said:

Weird that they are doing a mass slaughter berfore testing...they now have a test that can detect it in the rectum without killing...but according to the report I heard it takes time for CWD to be evident there.

The pre-mortem tests are not as accurate as the post-mortem ones. Also, doing pre-mortem testing on an entire herd can way more costly and time consuming. Once you have a certain number of positives showing up at a single facility, the depop makes more sense and the testing is often a secondary objective to getting rid of all of the potentially exposed deer.
txags92
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HTownAg98 said:

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

Weird that they are doing a mass slaughter berfore testing...they now have a test that can detect it in the rectum without killing...but according to the report I heard it takes time for CWD to be evident there.

The current protocol is that if cwd is detected in a captive herd (breeding operation), all the animals are killed and brain stem tissue samples are collected for testing.

The more shocking thing here is 72 animals not being accounted for.

I don't think they currently move to depop based on a single detection unless things have changed recently. Typically, the single detection spawns development of a more intense testing progam for the breeder to regain the ability to transport deer. If the additional testing reveals multiple positives or the breeder refuses to do any further testing, then depop becomes an option they will look at. I would guess that the combination of the CWD detection in a young deer born at the facility and the large number of missing deer likely made them be more aggressive.

I wonder if this facility was one that was implicated in any of the illegal transport activities that were the subject of the major bust earlier this year. Might explain where some of those 72 deer went...
Yesterday
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Queso1 said:

Yesterday said:

I'm all for high fenced ranches and improving deer genetics etc but it's really hard to ignore the fact that this is happening primarily with deer breeders.


Are they really improving genetics or are they just breeding the genetics that trophy hunters want? I do not believe these are the same thing.


Of course they're breeding genetics and improving the genetics hunters want. That's where the money is. Was there any question they were doing it for any other reason?
montanagriz
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txags92 said:

mpl35 said:

In before the "Dr. Deer says" crowd shows up.

They will be here shortly to tell us how this was an unnecessary depop because the breeder was clearly trying to save the wild herd in Texas by breeding CWD immune deer and letting 72 of them "go missing".


Funny, its exactly what oklahoma is doing to fight cwd or you can be like Missouri and just kill 90% of deer in square mile to keep populations so low deer dont cone in contact and cant spread the disease. Time will tell which approach ends up the best. I just hope real scientist can come up with a solution. That solution will undoubtedly involve genetics. Hard to test any medicine or genetics when the solution offered by our intellectuals is to just kill anything that has a "chance".

Now continue on with your pitchforks and praise of tpwd leadership
txags92
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montanagriz said:

txags92 said:

mpl35 said:

In before the "Dr. Deer says" crowd shows up.

They will be here shortly to tell us how this was an unnecessary depop because the breeder was clearly trying to save the wild herd in Texas by breeding CWD immune deer and letting 72 of them "go missing".


Funny, its exactly what oklahoma is doing to fight cwd or you can be like Missouri and just kill 90% of deer in square mile to keep populations so low deer dont cone in contact and cant spread the disease. Time will tell which approach ends up the best. I just hope real scientist can come up with a solution. That solution will undoubtedly involve genetics. Hard to test any medicine or genetics when the solution offered by our intellectuals is to just kill anything that has a "chance".

Now continue on with your pitchforks and praise of tpwd leadership

Nobody here has expressed any desire or support for the Missouri approach. But continuing to allow the one thing proven to be spreading CWD in Texas (deer breeding for sale, transport, and release) is madness, for which TPWD should also be ridiculed. There is nothing noble about what the breeders are doing.
mpl35
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txags92 said:

montanagriz said:

txags92 said:

mpl35 said:

In before the "Dr. Deer says" crowd shows up.

They will be here shortly to tell us how this was an unnecessary depop because the breeder was clearly trying to save the wild herd in Texas by breeding CWD immune deer and letting 72 of them "go missing".


Funny, its exactly what oklahoma is doing to fight cwd or you can be like Missouri and just kill 90% of deer in square mile to keep populations so low deer dont cone in contact and cant spread the disease. Time will tell which approach ends up the best. I just hope real scientist can come up with a solution. That solution will undoubtedly involve genetics. Hard to test any medicine or genetics when the solution offered by our intellectuals is to just kill anything that has a "chance".

Now continue on with your pitchforks and praise of tpwd leadership

Nobody here has expressed any desire or support for the Missouri approach. But continuing to allow the one thing proven to be spreading CWD in Texas (deer breeding for sale, transport, and release) is madness, for which TPWD should also be ridiculed. There is nothing noble about what the breeders are doing.

That and the claim anyone on here praised TPWD leadership....no wonder he listens to Dr. Deer.
txags92
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mpl35 said:

txags92 said:

montanagriz said:

txags92 said:

mpl35 said:

In before the "Dr. Deer says" crowd shows up.

They will be here shortly to tell us how this was an unnecessary depop because the breeder was clearly trying to save the wild herd in Texas by breeding CWD immune deer and letting 72 of them "go missing".


Funny, its exactly what oklahoma is doing to fight cwd or you can be like Missouri and just kill 90% of deer in square mile to keep populations so low deer dont cone in contact and cant spread the disease. Time will tell which approach ends up the best. I just hope real scientist can come up with a solution. That solution will undoubtedly involve genetics. Hard to test any medicine or genetics when the solution offered by our intellectuals is to just kill anything that has a "chance".

Now continue on with your pitchforks and praise of tpwd leadership

Nobody here has expressed any desire or support for the Missouri approach. But continuing to allow the one thing proven to be spreading CWD in Texas (deer breeding for sale, transport, and release) is madness, for which TPWD should also be ridiculed. There is nothing noble about what the breeders are doing.

That and the claim anyone on here praised TPWD leadership....no wonder he listens to Dr. Deer.

He takes any explanation of the "why" behind TPWD's decision making as praise. There are things I think TPWD gets right, but management of CWD and deer breeding isn't one of them. They should have shut down deer breeding/transport after the 2nd facility tested positive and kept it shut down until they have a reliable live test for the disease. CWD would likely still be confined to Medina county, the panhandle, and far west Texas had they done that.

Despite the improvements in the live testing, there are still deer being cleared for transport using it that subsequently pop positive at new facilities with no documented cases of CWD, suggesting the use of duplicate tests with <75% accuracy isn't good enough.

He is correct that the genetic research being done is valuable, but it should be done on tightly controlled facilities with long term tracking of exposures and frequent testing, not with deer being sold and randomly released all over the state.
SanAntoneAg
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Yet another example of why ear tags should be mandatory throughout the lifespan of captive deer in Texas.
txags92
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SanAntoneAg said:

Yet another example of why ear tags should be mandatory throughout the lifespan of captive deer in Texas.

They look really good on a shoulder mount.
Mathguy64
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AstroAggie15 said:

Hope the breeder goes out of business.


Not being able to account for 72 potentially diseased pieces of livestock that could contaminate a wild population?

I hope the "breeder" goes to jail.

I know pandora is out of her box and this whole "breed deer and pretend they are wild animals" mess isn't ever being fixed. Not anymore. Once the kind of $$ people get for shooting a whitetail with big antlers started showing up, that $ was going to win out because that kind of $ buys you a politician or 2. Or in this case as many as it takes to stack the deck.

But it sickens me to see it happen.

I grew up hunting for meat, sitting on a stand taking my chances to see what came by. What a whitetail has on its head doesn't move the needle for me. I was just putting meat in a freezer. I just don't get the allure of shooting what amounts to a bred animal no different than a cow with horns just to put it on a wall. I sure don't get canned hunts.
AstroAggie15
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Yep. TPWD is probably bribed out by these high roller whitetail ranches to the point where they are going to have the biggest influence on policy decision for the foreseeable future

I don't think there is any path to reverting back. Cats out the bag
MouthBQ98
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They're not bribed but the top officials and the congress critters with committee oversight absolutely get leaned on by these big taxpayer landowners profiting from this arrangement and who hope to cash in and run before it all goes to crap between CWD and screw worms.
slammerag
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Interesting that testing leads to positive results. Sounds like the early COVID days.
schmellba99
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slammerag said:

Interesting that testing leads to positive results. Sounds like the early COVID days.

Of course testing for X is going to lead to discovering cases of X, that's kind of the point.

The number of CWD cases in wild herds is extremely small. Conversely, the frequency in breeder herds is significantly larger. Which is the root cause of the spread of CWD across the state in the manner that it has spread across the state, which is what anybody with an nth of brain capacity can deduce fairly quickly.

In just about every other sector, when you identify the root cause of the problem you fix the root cause. But not in anything government related. Instead you bury your head in the sand and then wonder why the problem hasn't gone away when you finally decide to take your head out and look around. Then government burys their head in the sand again and thinks that THIS time it will fix the problem.
slammerag
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I doubt deer breeders have any political influence. In fact, most barely break even if that - I've been around some.
I'm all for shutting it down all breeding and transport. We also need to shut down all feeding - if you do that, you will see who has political influence.
txags92
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slammerag said:

I doubt deer breeders have any political influence. In fact, most barely break even if that - I've been around some.
I'm all for shutting it down all breeding and transport. We also need to shut down all feeding - if you do that, you will see who has political influence.


You would be absolutely wrong. TPWD abandoned their initial plan for how to handle CWD detections at breeders because of political pressure threatening their funding in key legislative committees. There were multiple bills filed by breeder friendly congress critters in the most recent session to gut their ability to regulate deer breeding at all. The breeders have lots of money to throw at politicians.
SanAntoneAg
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Don't doubt it one bit, quite to the contrary.

https://www.texasdeerassociation.com/pac/

Plus, TDA's executive director is a former state rep. "Chris leads the operational and legislative missions of the TDA."

Mathguy64
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MouthBQ98 said:

They're not bribed but the top officials and the congress critters with committee oversight absolutely get leaned on by these big taxpayer landowners profiting from this arrangement and who hope to cash in and run before it all goes to crap between CWD and screw worms.


Sure they are. There are lots of forms of bribery. It doesn't have to be cash in a brown bag.

It can be a big campaign donation. It can be nice dinners out. Heck it can be a hunt or two all on the house.
MouthBQ98
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Density. That is it. Breeding facilities have lots of deer in close contact on a small area all the time. Prions build up in the environment at much higher concentration. They are durable and persistent. The close contact amongst animals, and the very high concentration of environmental prions from body fluids and waste vastly increase the odds of the deer in that environment getting infected.

In the wild, the density is far far lower, and not geographically concentrated to one tiny area full of infected animals shedding prions. This means the odds of spreading are extremely low. The wild deer live and die faster than a few infected deer can spread it in natural wild deer densities.
MouthBQ98
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Yeah, in those terms. Probably so.
txags92
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Mathguy64 said:

MouthBQ98 said:

They're not bribed but the top officials and the congress critters with committee oversight absolutely get leaned on by these big taxpayer landowners profiting from this arrangement and who hope to cash in and run before it all goes to crap between CWD and screw worms.


Sure they are. There are lots of forms of bribery. It doesn't have to be cash in a brown bag.

It can be a big campaign donation. It can be nice dinners out. Heck it can be a hunt or two all on the house.


Astro was claiming TPWD was bribed, not the politicians. That is not the case unless you count politicians threatening to take away funding as a bribe. Nobody is getting rich working for TPWD.
Gunny456
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Multiple studies have proven the feeding really has no bearing.
Arkansas allows feeding. Missouri does not. They did multi year studies along the border between the two states and found no hard evidence of any escalation or prevention.
Instead of simply just stopping the breeding and transport, Missouri has decided their answers is to drastically reduce the deer herd numbers.
The MO Farm Bureau is taking advantage of this trend to actively lobby for MODOC to greatly reduce the deer numbers in the state so deer don't hurt their "crops".
Their crops being grass for cattle. But most of the old farmers can't be made to believe that whitetail don't eat grass. As they clear more and more timber in the state to plant more grass for cattle and wonder why the whitetail go to where the food is as they lose more and more habitat.
Little private land in MO is leased for deer hunting like Texas. Lots of landowners just let folks hunt by asking permission and there is lots of public land available for hunting in the state.
Missouri thoughts are "Well, if we don't have any deer, we won't have CWD…see we fixed it!"
But yet they decimate predator populations to keep their cows from being hurt.
I surmise that because landowners don't make lots of money leasing their land for deer hunting in MO their is little opposition to devastation of herd numbers.
HTownAg98
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slammerag said:

I doubt deer breeders have any political influence. In fact, most barely break even if that - I've been around some.
I'm all for shutting it down all breeding and transport. We also need to shut down all feeding - if you do that, you will see who has political influence.

The people that have breeding operations didn't get rich from breeding deer. They made their money in O&G, finance, real estate, tech, etc. and bought a ranch with their disposable income.
Gunny456
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I have attended many workshops, seminars, conferences on CWD. I have asked the question many times to "experts" of…if the prions are in the soils to such an extent then why is it not spread by mud on tires of trucks, trailers, shoes etc. I always get crickets and never an explanation.
In my opinion, which means little, is we know as much about CWD now as we did about Covid. There is still a lot to figure out and learn. But we do know it's spread the most from breeder facilities.
If you have a sewage leak into your drinking water the best way to fix it is to fix that leak…not to filter the drinking water.
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