Tush Push debate

2,772 Views | 44 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by DannyDuberstein
Jarrin Jay
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9:21p, 9/16/25
AG
I rarely post in this forum so apologies if this has already been discussed.

What is the mood and consensus here on the tush push and should be it be a legal play?

I am 100% against it.

1 - For a long time in football you could not push or pull a ball carrier, and I think that rule should be put back in.
2 - football is about blocking and tackling, not creating a rugby scrum your QB can ride over a wave of mass of humanity. They way PHI runs it the Gs or Ts don't even really block, they just get into an army crawl and push forward. That is not blocking.
3 - I have seen it several times that the initial forward progress was stopped but they let the play keep going and it ended in a first down or TD. That is probably my biggest issue with it.

Interested to hear others opinions. I am not a Cowboys fan and am indifferent to PHI, so it's not Eagles hating or anything like that.
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MookieBlaylock
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9:31p, 9/16/25
AG
there is a reason no one watches Rugby-

ban it and move on
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Buck Compton
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9:53p, 9/16/25
AG
I think they should ban it the push part of it. And then secondly they should really focus on the ridiculous false starts.
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W
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12:42a, 9/17/25
AG
it needs to be banned

that play has made Hurts a viable NFL QB
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cman1494
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8:11a, 9/17/25
AG
My stance has changed a bit on it. I am a Cowboys fan, so I used to just hate it because it was so effective. But you can't ban a play because a team is really good at running it.

Here is what has changed over the last couple of seasons and into this one IMO:
  • Their offensive line false starts every time; if this were officiated correctly, every 3rd & 1 would turn into 3rd & 6 and they would stop doing it; you can't let the line get an early start
  • This has been talked about for a while, but the offensive line lines up offsides usually
  • Those 2 things above, if OFFICIATED CORRECTLY, would likely render the play in it's current form ineffective and they would have to go back to normal QB sneaks
  • Also, the safety element, which is what I think will ultimately get it banned; they ran this play like what, 4 or 5 times in a single half against the Chiefs last Sunday? The toll that takes on the offensive linemen is insane and creates player safety issues
  • Lastly and probably least important to getting it banned would be competitive balance. The Eagles essentially have a 1st & 9 to start every new set of downs whereas other teams have to go the full 10 yards. That's just because of how effective this play is.
Those are my thoughts.
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IrishAg
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In reply to Buck Compton • 8:48a, 9/17/25
Buck Compton said:
I think they should ban it the push part of it. And then secondly they should really focus on the ridiculous false starts.

I agree 100% on both,

It used to be a penalty to push a player forward like that since they're not using their own momentum as a runner. I don't know why that went away (or maybe it was just college), but if this is supposed to be the elite of the elite I don't understand why that penalty shouldn't be brought back since it's not highlighting the ability of a player.

And YES, I have no idea why the league decided to become so LAX on false starts. It's like o-line players realized that the refs take a "if you do it too much we'll stop calling it to move the game forward" for any penalty against the o-line, and the league is sitting there with a "what can you do, shoulder shrug" in response
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Southlake
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9:20a, 9/17/25
AG
Call the false starts / lining up in the neutral zone.

No pushing / No pulling
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to IrishAg • 9:27a, 9/17/25
AG
IrishAg said:
Buck Compton said:
I think they should ban it the push part of it. And then secondly they should really focus on the ridiculous false starts.

I agree 100% on both,

It used to be a penalty to push a player forward like that since they're not using their own momentum as a runner. I don't know why that went away (or maybe it was just college), but if this is supposed to be the elite of the elite I don't understand why that penalty shouldn't be brought back since it's not highlighting the ability of a player.

And YES, I have no idea why the league decided to become so LAX on false starts. It's like o-line players realized that the refs take a "if you do it too much we'll stop calling it to move the game forward" for any penalty against the o-line, and the league is sitting there with a "what can you do, shoulder shrug" in response


Admittedly, I am a cowboys fan. So my opinion of wanting it banned isn't without some bias. Ultimately though, my thoughts boil down to consistency. Defenses aren't allowed to "leverage", push the defense lineman for "safety", so why is that allowed on the offensive side of the ball? Either it's legal across the board, or it isn't. If they truly cared about player safety (they don't), they would ban it just on that notion alone.


But between the false starts and lining up in the neutral zone, if they officiated that consistently and correctly, it would at least make a dent in its effectiveness even if they didn't ban it outright

As much bias aside, it's a **** play. It's boring, ugly, and "isn't football" IMO.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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12:02p, 9/17/25
AG
Im not a fan of any team really and don't watch a lot of NFL. I was at the KC/Philly game on Sunday as business function so I saw it first hand. It is almost a guaranteed 1st down in less than 1 yard to go situations.

But, why aren't other teams doing this? Is it only legal for Philly?

Not being snarky, it's a serious question. If all teams can use it, they should start doing it. If they start calling other teams for offsides or false starts but not Philly, then you have a problem.
Double Talkin' Jive...
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cman1494
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In reply to Fuzzy Dunlop • 12:14p, 9/17/25
AG
Other teams have tried with limited success at times, but the way I see it there are a few issues:
  • Jalen Hurts just has the right body type; he is built more like a RB than a QB and can squat like 700 lbs, so he can really move some bodies himself
  • It has been officiated differently in my opinion; Philly "invented" it, so they get more leeway with positioning across the line of scrimmage it would seem
  • Other coaches might not want to put their linemen in those positions to risk injury; clearly Sirianni has a different risk tolerance
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Ag_07
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In reply to Fuzzy Dunlop • 1:56p, 9/17/25
AG
The Philly OL is one of the best in the league. They're really good.

Pair that with Jalen taking the snap and it's easy to see why it's so successful.
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Drunken Overseas Bettor
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2:23p, 9/17/25
I think it should be banned, but I'm really impressed for Philly's innovation and the fact that nobody else seems capable of doing it. Sports is all about seeing an advantage that the other team can't stop and exploiting it.
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Equinox
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4:19a, 9/18/25
I thought the Flying Wedge was outlawed a century ago.
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Matsui
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10:49a, 9/18/25
AG
The lining up in neutral zone is the biggest gripe for me. But as long as it is legal, let it rip.
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Scotty Appleton
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In reply to HummingbirdSaltalamacchia • 4:40p, 9/18/25
Yeah, Denver - Indy game was decided on a "leverage" penalty. There isn't much difference fundamentally.
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MaroonStain
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8:04p, 9/18/25
AG
Owners approved with a vote of 22-10 this offseason IIRC.
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Patriot25
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7:03a, 9/21/25
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nfl-looks-officiate-tight-chiefs-game-review-video-renews-tush-push-scrutiny-report
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DannyDuberstein
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12:14p, 9/21/25
AG
And they miss yet another false start. I think that is 3 missed false starts in a row counting last game

Would be very easy to go back to 2004 rules that were in place for decades and clean this up.
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Lt. Joe Bookman
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12:19p, 9/21/25
AG
So much for them calling it tighter.
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DannyDuberstein
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12:21p, 9/21/25
AG
I think it's a bit like umpiring in 2025 vs 1975. With all the velocity and spin rates and movement today, calling balls and strikes is harder than ever. With the mass of humanity on this play, it's apparently gotten tough too
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Lt. Joe Bookman
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12:26p, 9/21/25
AG
The false start on this latest one could be seen in real time.

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AggieEP
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1:04p, 9/21/25
It's a tough thing for me. Banning it because it's not aesthetically pleasing and because one team is great at it seems dumb to me on the surface.

The role of coaches is to find advantages and exploit them so you can win. The Eagles have done this and it's a play that's has made them unstoppable in short yardage situations. I applaud them for finding a way to win on the margins in a league where the difference between average and great is pretty small.

On the other hand, the league has a vested interested in marketing their product, and if they think this play significantly sullies the reputation of the league or renders games less watchable I think they'll eventually ban it. As mentioned, we tune in to watch football and not rugby. A scrum every once in a while is fine, but 6 or 7 times a game is perhaps excessive.
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Eliminatus
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1:15p, 9/21/25
AG
It's not even so much the false starts to me. It's the fact it always lead to the "where is the ball in the pile" mess. Sometimes it's obvious but others there is literally no way to tell if it got the yardage or not and the refs just have to go off of first impressions and vibes.

The ball is just too hard to track properly with eyes when fighting in the pile and the call overwhelmingly goes to the offense when there is no way to categorically overturn it afterwards.

Hated it when it came on the scene and hate it even more now.

I think it's going away with focus on it as well. Fingers crossed at least.
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PermianBasinAggie
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1:19p, 9/21/25
AG
They should make false start reviewable on tush push and goal line plays.
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AggieKatie2
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2:11p, 9/21/25
AG
It's too hard to officiate properly. Needs to go.

False starts/alignment issues/when runner is down.
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AustinAg2K
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5:54p, 9/21/25
The NFL needs to make everything that isn't a judgement call reviewable. False start and offsides aren't judgement calls, they can clearly be seen in video. Make them challengable and a lot of this goes away.
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Drewmeister
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In reply to MaroonStain • 6:38p, 9/21/25
AG
MaroonStain said:
Owners approved with a vote of 22-10 this offseason IIRC.

To clarify: 22 voted to ban it, 10 voted not to ban. It required 75% to change the rules so that effort fell two votes short.
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MaroonStain
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In reply to Drewmeister • 9:39p, 9/21/25
AG
Drewmeister said:
MaroonStain said:
Owners approved with a vote of 22-10 this offseason IIRC.

To clarify: 22 voted to ban it, 10 voted not to ban. It required 75% to change the rules so that effort fell two votes short.


Ahhhh. Thank you for the clarification
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Medaggie
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11:39p, 9/21/25
It is an ugly play but what I don't understand is

1. If it is so hard to stop, then why not just get a 250lb tight end and have him just practice that play?
2. If the ball is so hard to spot, then we should get rid of the QB sneak b/c its the same issue.
3. They should call false start, but I see tackles jumping back before the snap all the time. I have seen so many obvious false starts and it is never called. Is this really any different? D line are in the neutral zones all the time on these plays, so should they be officiating this more tightly too?

But it comes back to the question, if it is so hard to stop then why are they the only ones really doing it?
Did you see Buffalo get stuffed by KC last year? Did you see Philly truck KC for all of those first downs last week?

The answer is they have the QB and Linemen to do it. They have probably the biggest/strongest/best Offensive line and when you add a strong QB, it is almost impossible to stop.



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W
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8:37a, 9/22/25
AG
Hurts is one of the few QB's willing to run the play / put that punishment on his body
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DannyDuberstein
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8:51a, 9/22/25
AG
I think it's as simple as this - football is not rugby and the rules of the game acknowledged that for decades until 2005. Then add in that it's clearly an officiating nightmare. Should have been a no brainer last offseason, I bet they get those 2 missing votes this offseason after seeing the officiating challenges become front and center in the national conversation - that aspect has become an embarrassment for the league. And I don't know how you fix it because it's a friggin mass of humanity crammed together, you can't see worth dick, and some of this early movement is a fraction of a second.

I'd also point out that it's not like the Eagles can't run a sneak if it is banned. Hurts has power and they could still put support blocking next to him.
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DannyDuberstein
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10:02a, 9/22/25
AG
I'd call out that one of the unfair aspects of this is that there is a pile of bodies for him to lay on top of and therefore not be "down"; however, on a normal play his leverage would be kaput quickly. However, to then have someone push him across a pile while he's not really able to move on his own power makes no sense to allow.
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T dizl televizl
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9:04p, 9/22/25
AG
I'll echo what others have said.

I didn't have a big problem with it when it first came on the scene. Thought it was a good "finding a competitive advantage" type play.

Now that We've seen the faults with it, I'd like for them to ban it. Mainly just by going back to the old rules of not being allowed to push a player forward.

Memory seems to remember that that is how the rules were until Reggie Bush pushed Matt Leinart on that sneak against Notre Dame, and everyone just kind of accepted from that point on that it was stupid to not allow offensive players to push their fellow players forward.

Not only on the tush push, but other plays it just isn't great football imo to see a receiver catch a 10 yard pass and then there be a big pile up as offensive lineman run up to try and push the pile forward. Defense is at enough of a disadvantage as it is with the current rules, would be pretty hard to argue that adding a rule that helps them a bit would be "unfair".

I do think a lot would be solved by allowing a review of the play and being able to call the lineman being lined up offsides or going early.

All of that being said - I think the Eagles control their own destiny on this. If they over use the tush push it will get banned. If they only use it sparingly then I think it will stay.
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Daddy-O5
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In reply to Matsui • 11:34a, 9/23/25
AG
Matsui said:
The lining up in neutral zone is the biggest gripe for me. But as long as it is legal, let it rip.

Glad I'm not the only one. Make them run it legally, if they can do that it can stay. If not, it will go away naturally.
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South Platte
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3:56p, 9/24/25
I'm an Eagles fan. I'm all for it. In a game where teams churn out 300-400 yards of offense, this play gets us a whole 2 yards . . .

The legality of it bothers me much less than allowing the KC offensive tackles false start a split second before the snap.
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