fc2112 said:

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YouBet said:

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I guess this is a UK company. Is this just more degradation of UK culture, competence, and know how?

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GKN is a holding company. This is the old Pilkington Aerospace.

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Gotcha.

fc2112 said:

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80085 said:

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this facility is a major cog in the MIC. Could ground some domestic and other aircraft with a broken supply chain

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An explosion would be of incalculable damage to the program I work on.

Frankly, if GKN is shut down for even a week, it's a huge problem. They are sole source on some of our transparencies.

This will almost certainly shut down GKN's ability to cast acrylic for a long time. Thankfully. the transparency manufacturing building is on the other end of their complex. As long as they can get stretched acrylic somewhere, they can keep making transparencies for us.

BTW - I visit this facility once a month. Was supposed to go week after next. I'm guessing that trip is off.

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sounds like you work near a chicfila or 2

Lawyers are already spooled up:

https://ktla.com/news/orange-county/class-action-lawsuit-filed-chemical-leak-crisis-garden-grove/

Quote:

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A class-action lawsuit has been filed against GKN Aerospace on behalf of Garden Grove residents affected by the ongoing chemical leak crisis that prompted officials to declare a state of emergency.

The suit is seeking, "Accountability for residents facing evacuation orders, property disruption, potential health risks, loss of use of their homes, related expenses, and diminished property values."

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So it isn't a funky reggae party?

fc2112 said:

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Lawyers are already spooled up:

https://ktla.com/news/orange-county/class-action-lawsuit-filed-chemical-leak-crisis-garden-grove/

Quote:

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A class-action lawsuit has been filed against GKN Aerospace on behalf of Garden Grove residents affected by the ongoing chemical leak crisis that prompted officials to declare a state of emergency.

The suit is seeking, "Accountability for residents facing evacuation orders, property disruption, potential health risks, loss of use of their homes, related expenses, and diminished property values."

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OC reddit is a bunch of people talking about how to maximize anxiety claims. 1 guy posted a bunch of stats of energy storage and how its really not a likely hazard. hundred+ downvotes

does anyone else do this in the US? if not I bet its repaired by july 4th

There are a number of stretched acrylic vendors, but GKN is by far the biggest.

Ogre09 said:

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MMA polymerizes (reacts with itself to form solids) if stored improperly. The polymerization releases heat, which causes the reaction to accelerate. So part of the problem is the contents are now a mix of solids, hot vapors, and liquids, likely with trapped encapsulated pockets of liquids that are still reacting. They're spraying the outside with water to cool the tank. But the tank has likely already been damanged from internal pressure and heat. It's also very flammable and the vapors are a strong inhalation health hazard. Best case scenario the tank stays intact and the material all reacts out and cools down.

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You mention the best case scenario.

Um, you failed to mention worst case? (grateful I am on the east coast)

1988PA-Aggie said:

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Ogre09 said:

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MMA polymerizes (reacts with itself to form solids) if stored improperly. The polymerization releases heat, which causes the reaction to accelerate. So part of the problem is the contents are now a mix of solids, hot vapors, and liquids, likely with trapped encapsulated pockets of liquids that are still reacting. They're spraying the outside with water to cool the tank. But the tank has likely already been damanged from internal pressure and heat. It's also very flammable and the vapors are a strong inhalation health hazard. Best case scenario the tank stays intact and the material all reacts out and cools down.

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You mention the best case scenario.

Um, you failed to mention worst case? (grateful I am on the east coast)

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Pressure relief valve gets plugged up. Pressure builds internally and then the tank ruptures explosively. The hot vapor sprays out in a large cloud that then ignites causing a second explosion. The explosions rupture adjacent tanks, causing further chemical leaks. Fires, deaths, permanent disabilities, property damage, owner goes bankrupt, facility permanently closed, all employees fired.

80085 said:

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Im a pretty conservative guy, prob more than most in here, but a runaway PID and a polymerized fluid clogging the emergency drain valve has nothing to do with politics

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Just an engineer that can't design a pop off valve, or relief valves should be at the top of the tank? No containment system?

But Spencer Pratt has to build a $54000 fence before he can clean his land.

Clearly no misplaced priorities.

22 year old me would suit up, build the containment, rig up the water jet, and get it drained in less than 24 hours for boots and coots pricing. $100,000 to tell what I can do, $250,000 an hour for me to get it done. 12 hour minimum.

Any well control company out there would have already had this done if they would just make the call and get out of their way.

But no politics at all involved in this **** up

i don't think you know anything about reactive hazards or safeguarding of tanks.

this is not predictable and controllable like a well blowout

itsyourboypookie said:

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80085 said:

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Im a pretty conservative guy, prob more than most in here, but a runaway PID and a polymerized fluid clogging the emergency drain valve has nothing to do with politics

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Just an engineer that can't design a pop off valve, or relief valves should be at the top of the tank? No containment system?

But Spencer Pratt has to build a $54000 fence before he can clean his land.

Clearly no misplaced priorities.

22 year old me would suit up, build the containment, rig up the water jet, and get it drained in less than 24 hours for boots and coots pricing. $100,000 to tell what I can do, $250,000 an hour for me to get it done. 12 hour minimum.

Any well control company out there would have already had this done if they would just make the call and get out of their way.

But no politics at all involved in this **** up

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Bass and Newsom are just excited about the possibility of more cheap real estate they can build Marxist housing developments on after this thing goes.

fc2112 said:

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There are a number of stretched acrylic vendors, but GKN is by far the biggest.

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You seem like the right guy to do this. Can you explain to me like I'm 5 years old, what is MMA used for? I'm not familiar with "stretched acrylic" or its uses.

I'm assuming MMA is used in the process of creating something rather than the byproduct of creating something.

TheCurl84 said:

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fc2112 said:

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There are a number of stretched acrylic vendors, but GKN is by far the biggest.

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You seem like the right guy to do this. Can you explain to me like I'm 5 years old, what is MMA used for? I'm not familiar with "stretched acrylic" or its uses.

I'm assuming MMA is used in the process of creating something rather than the byproduct of creating something.

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MMA reacts with itself to form PMMA (plexiglass)
solid PMMA blocks are heated just below melt and pulled in 2 axis then chilled
stretched plexiglass is cut and formed into helicoptor or rocket ship shapes and a frozen turkey gets launced at it in celebration of a job well done

80085 said:

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TheCurl84 said:

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fc2112 said:

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There are a number of stretched acrylic vendors, but GKN is by far the biggest.

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You seem like the right guy to do this. Can you explain to me like I'm 5 years old, what is MMA used for? I'm not familiar with "stretched acrylic" or its uses.

I'm assuming MMA is used in the process of creating something rather than the byproduct of creating something.

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MMA reacts with itself to form PMMA (plexiglass)
solid PMMA blocks are heated just below melt and pulled in 2 axis then chilled
stretched plexiglass is cut and formed into helicoptor or rocket ship shapes and a frozen turkey gets launced at it in celebration of a job well done

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Sounds like a better way to celebrate than all the stupid gender reveals

sts7049 said:

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i don't think you know anything about reactive hazards or safeguarding of tanks.

this is not predictable and controllable like a well blowout

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I'm sure a committee of engineers that designed these tanks without a pop off and where the relief valve could get gummed up will be there to advise.

The two options right now is an uncontrolled spill without an explosion, and an uncontrolled spill with an explosion.

Any company hired job is a controlled spill no explosion.

Quote:

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Hazardous-materials crews are still working to determine whether a crack in a Garden Grove tank filled with toxic chemicals has helped release pressure, potentially reducing the risk of an explosion.

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They got their crack

itsyourboypookie said:

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sts7049 said:

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i don't think you know anything about reactive hazards or safeguarding of tanks.

this is not predictable and controllable like a well blowout

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I'm sure a committee of engineers that designed these tanks without a pop off and where the relief valve could get gummed up will be there to advise.

The two options right now is an uncontrolled spill without an explosion, and an uncontrolled spill with an explosion.

Any company hired job is a controlled spill no explosion.

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my understanding of this is there are active drains to spill into a trough and air quench the reaction along with passive blow off valves to prevent overpressurizing the tank .

I've been around polymer processing enough to see both of these concepts fail. The parts up top and the parts at the bottom of tanks aren't in the processing flow and can partially catalyze locking up the mechanical parts.

I think the root cause of this is inadequate control systems. Either reliance on a single temp sensor, or a failure to halt production with failed redundant inputs. There are extreme market pressures in this time period to keep things running so I think the later is more likely.

So a flakey temp sensor tells the computer the tank is below its actual temp and keep ramping it up (see Iran centrifuge hack). The above target temp kicks off a chain reaction inside the tank.

The same failed sensor input never triggers an automatic emergency fluid dump.

Do we know what caused people to take notice of the problem? I'm guessing short shots in the plexiglass casting lines from clogged supply line.

..

I'm on a roll. DP

..

80085 said:

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TheCurl84 said:

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fc2112 said:

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There are a number of stretched acrylic vendors, but GKN is by far the biggest.

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You seem like the right guy to do this. Can you explain to me like I'm 5 years old, what is MMA used for? I'm not familiar with "stretched acrylic" or its uses.

I'm assuming MMA is used in the process of creating something rather than the byproduct of creating something.

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MMA reacts with itself to form PMMA (plexiglass)
solid PMMA blocks are heated just below melt and pulled in 2 axis then chilled
stretched plexiglass is cut and formed into helicoptor or rocket ship shapes and a frozen turkey gets launced at it in celebration of a job well done

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Well, freshly euthanized in our case. We're old school that way.

Someone leaked one of our test videos some time back, apparently. Here is GKN's finest at work.