The unions do not want the teachers to teach.

pfo said:

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All the above plus add in American children's classes are being flooded with illegals that can't even speak English. This is horrible on two fronts. They hold American children back because the teacher has to take time to carry the illegals along and the illegals further bring down test scores.

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Yeah, even it they are not illegal it can be an issue. My grandaughters started school at a small rural school where 80+% of the students didn't hear English at home. It made a difference in how the teachers had to teach to reach the majority of their students. My oldest granddaughter was "at the top of her class." But after first grade my daughter and her husband decided to move them to a private school. She was tested at the 45 percentile and told she would need to repeat first grade or spend the summer tutoring and retest. She repeated first grade. And after 6 weeks the retest showed her at the 88th percentile. She went from hating to read to getting in trouble for having a flashlight and reading under her covers after bedtime after two years of the private school. And it breaks my heart for all the students that don't have other options. What can we do? If the parents can't speak English, they can't help with homework very much.

mjschiller said:

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The unions do not want the teachers to teach.

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Preach.

i think you misplaced some commas.

I've got bad news for you guys: some of the HS are not enforcing the phone ban. The schools where my wife goes (she visits various campuses early childhood-HS) no longer have a ban on phones as kids just carry them with them. If a teacher tells them to put it away, I guess they do, but multiple students have told her that the school just frankly doesn't enforce any rules except for serious behavior ones like fighting, weapons, and substances.

Everything can pretty much be traced to one thing: school districts do not have the will to take on students and parents when it comes to enforcing rules and giving grades that mean something. Most parents are, in fact, the worst hypocrites imaginable. They complain about the quality of their kid's education but "don't you dare discipline my kid...;" "don't you dare not let my kid have a phone as I need to get in touch with him 100,000 times a day...;" "don't you dare give my kid a failing grade when he didn't turn in that assignment as he was too busy with his soccer or baseball team...;" and, my favorite, "don't you dare close down the elementary school nearest my house -- close down another one in another parents' neighborhood."

While the schools bear a lot of the blame, this whole thing would be cleaned up inside a year if the parents actually gave a damn.

The schools that are adhering to the state law are noticing numerous benefits, and that is proven with empirical data. You're may be wrong here. But i suppose it's not your first time being wrong, so....

There are a lot of suggestions in here about how to fix this, but I can assure you with 100% certainty that none of them will. The problem is that the government runs them. Name just one thing the govt does well. Actually, let's lower the bar even more and see if anyone can name just one thing the govt does satisfactorily.

A secondary problem to the govt's incompetence is the moral hazard. It only pretends to care about results, but it sure as hell doesn't care about what it costs. IIRC we spend more per pupil than any other country and we're not even close to the top as far as results.

Another poster mentioned that parents don't give a damn. Well that's true, but the reason for that is similar to the moral hazard problem. A lot of people just sort of view school as "free." Since everyone has to pay property taxes, and we've grown so used to them, the direct link between cost/benefit has been severed. Perhaps if people actually had to pay or at least invest their time into their kid's education, they would care more.

Any attempts to tinker with the current system will achieve negligible improvement. And of course, it will cost an astronomical amount to achieve it. The solution is to abolish public schools. At the very least, it should be abolished at the federal level. Send it back to the smallest possible unit; the individual and local communities. States could try a public schooling system. But I would bet all of my money that states without any public schooling, and that embrace a free market approach, would outperform.

Helicopter Ben said:

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There are a lot of suggestions in here about how to fix this, but I can assure you with 100% certainty that none of them will. The problem is that the government runs them. Name just one thing the govt does well. Actually, let's lower the bar even more and see if anyone can name just one thing the govt does satisfactorily.

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The irony is that a lot of folks will agree and preach this from their rooftops…..but then send their children to government run schools for 8 hours a day.

Parents must begin to get more active in their children's education.

The precipitous decline coincides with the woke virus among educators. When they decided to quit teaching and indoctrinate. There are other factors and they all fall square on the left.

No, student loan money isn't the issue. Most people just aren't interested in going to college for a degree that leads to a job with no respect and perceived low pay.

There also seems to be a lot of first-generation college students in education. Probably in part because they understand teaching as a profession.

We know leftists don't really care about laws. They know better than all of us. It's why democrats cities are hell holes.

sshm said:

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For transparency, I'm a high school history teacher at a title 1 6A school in Texas.

It's bad. The last two years in particular it has been very obvious that the numbers about the current crop of kids being the first to regress compared to their predecessors is VERY true. Pretty much everyone KNOWS what is causing a lot of the problems, but it is going to be hard to get the bipartisan support necessary to fix the issues. The fact that banning phones in the classroom was such a bipartisan effort though does give me some hope, but I don't have enough faith in politicians to take that as a given.

Republicans are going to have to have to not be openly hostile towards education to get anything done. As much as many hyper conservatives will want to deny it, the bulk of the liberal teachers still agree with you on what 90% of the problems are. I have heard my heavy left-leaning co-workers complain about a lot of the same stuff -- screens, parental apathy, social promotion/low expectations, and poor education research being pushed in schools (this is why phonics went away in some places). The blue haired psycho trope does exist, but it's a lot less common than people think it is. What we can't have is a rehash of democrats vs cops. Defund the police didn't work and yet Republicans think running that playbook with education will solve all of our problems.

Meanwhile democrats are going to have to live in reality and accept certain negative outcomes. Classroom expectations and rigor have to be brought back. To fix everything, kids are going to have to be allowed to fail. That WILL include large and disproportionate numbers of poor kids, minorities, and special education kids and that's going to make a lot of democrats p***y out instead of doing what is necessary to bring education back in line with where it needs to be. If there aren't leaders on the left with some balls, silhouette and gauche are going to be the least of our problems.

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Did 12 years in public education -
- taught middle school
- taught high school (including Advanced Placement)
- assistant principal

All but 2 years of this was at higher end suburban DFW high schools.

I've been in sales for the last 4 years but the quoted thing above is pretty close to spot on.

The amount of chances kids get now with no consequences is nuts. And yet failure rates and late graduation/drop outs are seriously bad. I learned over the years that there an unreal amount of adults that just don't care.

It's honestly a deadly combination of societal decline, decimation of the nuclear family, lack of parents giving a crap outside of surviving the day, and an education system that frankly chooses the path of least resistance to also try to survive the day.

I considered myself to be pretty skilled at instructional design, improved our AP scores 45% in a year, etc. And I spent under 5% of my time as an administrator doing anything related to instruction.

BadMoonRisin said:

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The schools that are adhering to the state law are noticing numerous benefits, and that is proven with empirical data. You're may be wrong here. But i suppose it's not your first time being wrong, so....

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Hi there, former educator/administrator here. I'm very in tune with this cell phone conversation, as it was something I battled a lot.

There's no doubt most educators love it for obvious reasons.

Long term - probably some version of it is part of the solution.

The reality is that there is very little empirical evidence that it changes much of anything, at least not right away.

Here's the only decent study done on it.

Try to look at it using only factual information and ignore your confirmation bias.

And this is coming from someone that absolutely hated cell phones both in the classroom and as an admin.

https://ed.stanford.edu/news/national-study-school-cell-phone-bans-shows-benefits-are-not-immediate

Athanasius said:

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Homeschool your children and/or get them into a catholic or classical school.

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Our basic curriculum in Catholic school was reading, writing, science, math, Latin and religion.
Even an atheist can benefit from these courses. : )

ts5641 said:

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The precipitous decline coincides with the woke virus among educators. When they decided to quit teaching and indoctrinate. There are other factors and they all fall square on the left.

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I would say conservatives have some responsibility as well, albeit to a somewhat lesser degree. There simply hasn't been enough interest and pushback. It had to reach the current level of extreme absurdity for people to start having these conversations. This problem has been brewing for decades and it took boys in girls locker rooms and the transgender nonsense to wake people up. That didn't come out of nowhere. It progressed to this point.

It's been clear for a long time that kids aren't learning much, and in many cases practically nothing. This was all inevitable when people decided to entrust the government with the idea of public education. And they're continuing to make the same mistake by thinking it can be fixed instead of just scrapping it altogether.

Quote:

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This was all inevitable when people decided to entrust the government with the idea of public education. And they're continuing to make the same mistake by thinking it can be fixed instead of just scrapping it altogether.

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Blame those crazy Founding Fathers for that.

But this is definitely a parent issue. I'm starting to see stories of school districts getting sued because graduates can't read. Those graduates should be suing their parents for negligence.

I'm not saying there aren't real problems in public schools, but parents who are involved, informed and politically active could cure most of those.

Quote:

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Blame those crazy Founding Fathers for that.

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Not completely accurate. What we think of as public education today is a top down structure funded in large part by the federal government.

That was not one of the core functions the Founders envisioned for the federal part of the republic. Left that to the states.

I remember watching the film (remember those when your teacher would wheel in that giant projector and pull down all the blinds? MOVIE DAY!) back in the 60s when there was quite a debate about whether the federal government should even be involved with public schools (not universities) at all.

aggie93 said:

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doubledog said:

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Let's face it. Many teachers today can not teach the basics, reading, writing, science and mathematics. But they can tell you that Heather has two mommies.

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There are still excellent teachers out there but there are some hard realities people don't want to face.

For instance the quality of student who goes into teaching has dropped consistently for the last 40 years. This is in part due to feminism. My Aunt for instance was brilliant. She graduated from High School at 14 and went to a West Texas State and graduated with honors to become a teacher and remained one for 40 years. Top student women used to go into teaching but now they go into other fields that pay better or just because they are encouraged to do so. Even from the '80s I knew girls at the top of our class who went into Education but you just don't see that now, for my boys recent classes I don't know of anyone in the Top 25% who wanted to go into education (outside of some that wanted to be college profs).

Education departments now have some of the lowest standards of admittance and lowest overall quality of graduates. There are exceptions but not a lot. It's become more about employment and benefits for the teachers and the best teachers generally want to go into Administration where the money is.

The best teachers my sons had were actually folks that worked in industry of some kind and decided to teach. They had some amazing folks like that but very few that were lifelong teachers, especially under the age of 45. I don't know how this gets fixed and that doesn't even account for all the other problems.

The other big thing is the evolution of homeschooling and online learning. Covid showed a LOT of parents the need to send your kid to sit in a classroom all day is not for everyone and it is easier than ever to learn in different ways. You also are seeing homeschool kids thriving at the University level.

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People don't want to go into education because you can't teach. Your hands are tied by someone who chooses your curriculum and 1/4 kids have a label that makes structure or discipline impossible. Kids need structure and discipline. Many of those in admin are just going to do whatever is necessary to keep their jobs. They are not there to help teachers, they are there to keep parents happy and the parents are often worse than the children.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Blame those crazy Founding Fathers for that.

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Not completely accurate. What we think of as public education today is a top down structure funded in large part by the federal government.

That was not one of the core functions the Founders envisioned for the federal part of the republic. Left that to the states.

I remember watching the film (remember those when your teacher would wheel in that giant projector and pull down all the blinds? MOVIE DAY!) back in the 60s when there was quite a debate about whether the federal government should even be involved with public schools (not universities) at all.

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Less than 20% of funding for Texas public schools come from the federal government. Most of that includes funding to Title 1 schools, special education, and the school nutrition program.

pfo said:

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All the above plus add in American children's classes are being flooded with illegals that can't even speak English. This is horrible on two fronts. They hold American children back because the teacher has to take time to carry the illegals along and the illegals further bring down test scores.

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And not just illegals.

The number of legal immigrants has multiplied so quickly in Texas that many districts are flooded with new ESL students every year.

BBRex said:

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Quote:

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This was all inevitable when people decided to entrust the government with the idea of public education. And they're continuing to make the same mistake by thinking it can be fixed instead of just scrapping it altogether.

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Blame those crazy Founding Fathers for that.

But this is definitely a parent issue. I'm starting to see stories of school districts getting sued because graduates can't read. Those graduates should be suing their parents for negligence.

I'm not saying there aren't real problems in public schools, but parents who are involved, informed and politically active could cure most of those.

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The bold is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the founders intended. Yes they believed an informed citizenry was essential…because that is vital to self-governance. They believed that local communities should handle education, or at most, it should be state level. Which is what I'm suggesting. Personally, I don't think state governments would do a good job either because even those have grown too large and bureaucratic. But at least we would have 50 different systems to experiment with what works best.

To put it as simply as possible, the critical mistake is when the federal government said "don't worry about education, we'll take care of it for you," and the people believed them.

Not a teacher. But I have a family member who worked in education for more than 20 years, and only recently left.

The story was always the same. The district would implement rules; the school would try and enforce them; the parents would complain to the district; and the district would cave.

Every time.

Quote:

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I'm going to shut up here in a second, but I rant about this all the time.

She is taking a Dual Credit literature class next year, so maybe she will read a Shakespeare play.

But just off the top of my head, she has not read

Animal Farm
To Kill a Mockingbird
Huck Finn
Romeo and Juliet
Julius Caesar
Macbeth
Anything by Dickens, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Emerson, Thoreau, Melville, Dickinson

It just hurts my brain and soul to think about it for too long.

She is a deep and sensitive and intelligent kid who would have loved my class, for instance. Sigh.

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So, why don't you have her read them?

There's a reason most competent private schools are full. This isn't a religious issue per se, but morals and ethics are the basis of education. Understanding accountability and accepting consequences have to be the norm for kids to excel in school. Otherwise there's no threat or more importantly, fear of failing.

Teachers unions have insured this has been removed from public schools starting with no accountability for teachers (standards or results). If the teachers have no accountability or fear of failing, neither will the students in their charge.

Some children should be left behind. The sooner we get back to that cold, hard fact, the sooner things improve. If K-3 swells enormously while kids learn their lesson, so be it - it starts there.

Quote:

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So, why don't you have her read them?

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Gosh, I never thought of that!

You don't have a 16-17 year old granddaughter, do you.



I have managed to have her read a few poems with me. No luck on books.

Well, I just remembered that she did agree to let me work with her on the summer reading book. I met with her and two of her friends a couple of weeks before school started and used an old AP Exam prompt to show them how to do a rhetorical analysis essay such as their teacher would want them to do on the non-fiction book she assigned.

The kids worked with me for over an hour and were very polite and smart, but it was all for naught in a way. None of the three read the entire book and the teacher dropped the ball anyway.

Teachers unions aren't keeping schools in Texas from getting rid of bad/low-performing teachers. It just requires documentation, the same as getting rid of employees at most jobs. Texas isn't Chicago or NYC.

Bull Meachem said:

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Less than 20% of funding for Texas public schools come from the federal government. Most of that includes funding to Title 1 schools, special education, and the school nutrition program.

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It appears I haven't been making my point very effectively. The root problem is the massive top-down, centralized bureaucracy of public education. Whether that be state level or federal, it doesn't matter. Huge bureaucracies don't work well for anything. And it's even worse for education because learning is done at the individual level.

What we need is decentralized education catered to the individual. State governments are too big and bureaucratic to effectively manage this. It should work the same way as when you research a business. You read reviews or ask around for recommendations. You look at multiple providers. You consider the cost/benefit. Whichever schools produce the best outcomes, earn the parents' business. So basically I'm advocating for free market competition in education. IMO, no other solution will be nearly as effective.

cevans_40 said:

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aggie93 said:

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doubledog said:

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Let's face it. Many teachers today can not teach the basics, reading, writing, science and mathematics. But they can tell you that Heather has two mommies.

---

There are still excellent teachers out there but there are some hard realities people don't want to face.

For instance the quality of student who goes into teaching has dropped consistently for the last 40 years. This is in part due to feminism. My Aunt for instance was brilliant. She graduated from High School at 14 and went to a West Texas State and graduated with honors to become a teacher and remained one for 40 years. Top student women used to go into teaching but now they go into other fields that pay better or just because they are encouraged to do so. Even from the '80s I knew girls at the top of our class who went into Education but you just don't see that now, for my boys recent classes I don't know of anyone in the Top 25% who wanted to go into education (outside of some that wanted to be college profs).

Education departments now have some of the lowest standards of admittance and lowest overall quality of graduates. There are exceptions but not a lot. It's become more about employment and benefits for the teachers and the best teachers generally want to go into Administration where the money is.

The best teachers my sons had were actually folks that worked in industry of some kind and decided to teach. They had some amazing folks like that but very few that were lifelong teachers, especially under the age of 45. I don't know how this gets fixed and that doesn't even account for all the other problems.

The other big thing is the evolution of homeschooling and online learning. Covid showed a LOT of parents the need to send your kid to sit in a classroom all day is not for everyone and it is easier than ever to learn in different ways. You also are seeing homeschool kids thriving at the University level.

---

People don't want to go into education because you can't teach. Your hands are tied by someone who chooses your curriculum and 1/4 kids have a label that makes structure or discipline impossible. Kids need structure and discipline. Many of those in admin are just going to do whatever is necessary to keep their jobs. They are not there to help teachers, they are there to keep parents happy and the parents are often worse than the children.

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Don't disagree but that is more of a retention issue. I'm talking about why people, especially bright young women that used to be the foundation of where the teachers came from, don't go into education to begin with. Retention is definitely a big issue as well. Also the best teachers are the least likely to want to put up with those issues you mentioned. They want to teach. This is also creating an even greater gap in school quality because the best schools tend to have parents that support teachers and prioritize academic achievement with their kids. The best teachers want to teach those kids and not be babysitters thus they gravitate to the best schools. For instance my son was in AP classes at a great public school and had multiple teachers with PhD's or had Masters Degrees in STEM from T20 colleges. They were people that could work elsewhere but wanted to teach bright students who were motivated. Problem is that's impossible to scale if you don't have motivated kids and supportive parents and no amount of money can fix it.

B-1 83 said:

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Some children should be left behind. The sooner we get back to that cold, hard fact, the sooner things improve. If K-3 swells enormously while kids learn their lesson, so be it - it starts there.

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Yes they should. The tools to diagnose children with actual learning disabilities (not deeming every active kid as ADD, ADHD as that is way overused) we have now should be easy to divert them from the classroom.

We had recesses in which to burn off energy with physical activity, not glued to phone time such as now.

Can Elon donate a crap ton of Faraday bags? (Half joking.)

All by design. Raise a dependent generation that don''t generally know the basics and fix it with more and more and more poor governance.

Teachers Unions have succeeded in achieving their goals.

BBRex said:

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Teachers unions aren't keeping schools in Texas from getting rid of bad/low-performing teachers. It just requires documentation, the same as getting rid of employees at most jobs. Texas isn't Chicago or NYC.

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Just ensuring teachers can't be reviewed or evaluated based on performance. So there's little to document.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/education/2025/07/31/527653/teachers-union-sues-houston-isd-over-performance-based-pay/%3famp=1

BadMoonRisin said:

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i think you misplaced some commas.

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Yes. Had some misspellings too. Sorry, I thought I could sneak it past you.

Over_ed said:

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increased children's screen time
increased chronic absenteeism

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i believe screen time is a disaster for children

chronic absenteeism
i was raised in a perfect attendance household and only allow my kids to miss if they are sick enough for me to be sympathetic. I dont think school is really blowing doors down with great content, but we need to learn to be responsible for being present.

the amount of elementary school aged kids missing school b/c they stayed up too late at baseball game the night before is so far beyond shocking that i cant wrap my head around it. sports are great and so is staying out late to play them, but you need to drag your kid out of bed the next morning.

That doesn't mean what you think it means. The state legislature approved raises for teachers with certain years of experience (TRA). They also approved a system for paying teachers based on performance (TIA). That lawsuit is specifically about HISD rolling TRA money into performance pay, which is not what the legislature said the money is for.

T-TESS is actually a pretty robust evaluation system (if used correctly), and that union lawsuit doesn't address that at all.