Also it's not like Howerton lives in a multi million dollar estate. It may be on the top end of average homes in Rockwall, but even then it was donated to him.

The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

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Why is his counseling on marriage or children raising be good but his views on politics as bad (if he is basing those views on the Bible and pointing out why this is bad?

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Because politics. Note I differentiate between private conversations and the pulpit. Politics have no place in the pulpit. I understand not all agree, but I very firmly believe this. I've left a church because of politics from the pulpit. Turns out it was politics with which I disagree, but that's irrelevant. One reason is that politics from the pulpit tend to be exclusionary - there's clear implications of "us vs them" or "toe the line or you're not a good Christian" or "believe like I say or you don't belong here" - it's unavoidable.

And for me, pastoral relations are horizontal, i.e. "brother" not "father". I expect the preacher to respect my advice every bit as much as I would his. Maybe more if he's young and inexperienced.

Go to a complete consumer based tax and who the hell cares if you pull the tax exemption

Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

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What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

Please name a current politician that pushes the wisdom of the sermon on the mount? Our modern politics (on both sides) are so far from that message I don't know how you could even make a comparison.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Churches are more than free to preach politics from the pulpit. But they should lose their tax exemption

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it's been this way for years in the black churches since that's where the Democrats like to go. Never an issue, but let a white, black, or brown republican show up in a church, and it becomes a major issue and the church needs to lose its tax exempt status. So stupid!

Ag-Yoakum95 said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Churches are more than free to preach politics from the pulpit. But they should lose their tax exemption

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it's been this way for years in the black churches since that's where the Democrats like to go. Never an issue, but let a white, black, or brown republican show up in a church, and it becomes a major issue and the church needs to lose its tax exempt status. So stupid!

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So enforce the requirement for all or get rid of it. Many of you are incapable of discussing this topic logically and without emotion.

Bob Lee said:

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Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

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What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

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I don't even know how to respond to this.

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Please name a current politician that pushes the wisdom of the sermon on the mount? Our modern politics (on both sides) are so far from that message I don't know how you could even make a comparison.

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Hmmm lets see:

• Turn the other check
• Beatitudes
• Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
• Love of money is a destructive force
• Do not store up for yourself treasures on eart

Both the modern GOP and Dems get an F minus on this test.

Most, if not all, churches receive they money as donations from already taxed income. These donations can be written off by the individual contributor just as if it were given to united way or some other charitable recipient. If you are proposing to vacate all 501c3 holders as tax exempt, great. If not, how do you reconcile taxing the same money twice?
(I'm fully aware that there are other tax vehicles that already do this, i.e. sales tax)

TxSquarebody said:

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Most, if not all, churches receive they money as donations from already taxed income. These donations can be written off by the individual contributor just as if it were given to united way or some other charitable recipient. If you are proposing to vacate all 501c3 holders as tax exempt, great. If not, how do you reconcile taxing the same money twice?
(I'm fully aware that there are other tax vehicles that already do this, i.e. sales tax)

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I'm not smart enough to make that call. My only answer is less taxes for all, and for all taxes applied equally, not equitably, by percentage.

Jesse Woods said:

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Please name a current politician that pushes the wisdom of the sermon on the mount? Our modern politics (on both sides) are so far from that message I don't know how you could even make a comparison.

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I don't think that anyone is claiming there is a politician that would be able to amount to the wisdom required for the Sermon on the Mount. There isn't a pastor alive that could either.

I think there are some members of government that are beginning to slowly peel back the falsehoods around certain practices (See Gillis with him getting how abortions are done on the record). Happy to see politicians bringing to light what this healthcare pertains. I will probably puke if they ever decide to bring to light all of the "gender affirming care" that is being pushed

National retail sales tax on the purchase of new goods that replaces all income tax, and this topic goes away. Until then, I'll keep my charitable contribution as tax deductible. Regardless of the 501c3 I donate to.

njohn87 said:

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On one hand, I think it is right and good for a pastor to to take a stand on issues that are, in his appraisal, scriptually unambiguous and nonnegotiable. I think maybe where the line is crossed, at least for me, is if the pastor is taking that and placing an explicit moral imperative on which way his congregation specifically vote. Because if you say, "this is the good party, this is the evil party," you are personally taking on the baggage of the favored party, and implicitly assigning that baggage to Christ as well.

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This is a problem with our rigid two party system.

A person should be able to point out the bad things about the Democratic Party -- their celebration of abortion and homosexuality, their giving a free pass to criminals for being "oppressed", their vilification of "privilege", or their booing God at their 2012 convention -- without having to endorse the Republican Party.

You don't have to agree 100% with whom you vote for. But when the presidential race is between someone 70% good, and someone 0% good, the choice should be obvious.

I wonder if this is less of a complaint in countries that have proportional representation and multi-party systems. Of course, most of Europe is too atheistic these days to have a "religious right".

Bob Lee said:

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Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

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What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

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I'm positive Jesus did not mention any particular political candidate nor an issue that a certain named political candidate was endorsing. The Sermon on the Mount was not political at all. At least, not as we view politics in the United States.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Churches are more than free to preach politics from the pulpit. But they should lose their tax exemption

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One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Now, if they (paid staff, etc.) start actively WORKING in a campaign or using the facility as a campaign office, or something like that, then it is a different matter entirely. But a preacher does not give up his first amendment right solely by standing at a pulpit.

Virtually all LGBT cult "churches" do this ALL the time. I don't complain about them doing it. I simply say that they're not preaching the Gospel. They say the same thing over and over -- that God is solely about loving one another and as long as you do that (except of course when it comes to Donald Trump and conservatives), you'll be fine. They're more than free to say that and believe that or whatever else they want.

Besides, where do you draw the line? Is "go vote this Tuesday" political? How about sermons on abortion? Homosexuality? The church can preach on those issues but not the city bond election, huh? That makes no sense. If the pastor has a sermon on how one spends his or her money, including tithing, and uses government out of control spending as a point or example, is that political? You simply can not adequately define politics or political speech here. Content based restrictions, at least in terms of speech, are largely unconstitutional. 501 designations are not SPEECH related -- at least not solely.

Got a Natty! said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

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What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

---

I'm positive Jesus did not mention any particular political candidate nor an issue that a certain named political candidate was endorsing. The Sermon on the Mount was not political at all. At least, not as we view politics in the United States.

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I think the way you view politics is deficient. Jesus definitely does mention the law and alludes to the government in His Sermon on the Mount.

I was using the endorsement of candidates as "the government". I have no problem with preachers preaching about our government and how it is being run, abused, etc. But I do have a problem with preachers, from the pulpit, endorsing candidates.

And for most of my life, and I am getting old, that has been a problem with black churches and the Democrats.

cecil77 said:

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Good preacher: Congregation has no clue his politics.

Great preacher: Every one is certain the preacher agrees with their personal opinions.

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Awesome preacher: There is only one King, and he doesn't live in DC. Or on this earth. HE is the one that matters.

Bob Lee said:

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Got a Natty! said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

---

What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

---

I'm positive Jesus did not mention any particular political candidate nor an issue that a certain named political candidate was endorsing. The Sermon on the Mount was not political at all. At least, not as we view politics in the United States.

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I think the way you view politics is deficient. Jesus definitely does mention the law and alludes to the government in His Sermon on the Mount.

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I think the way Evangelicals and Catholics are reared in their homes and respective churches creates fundamental differences in how our brains to how we approach logic and understanding. Not that's there's anything wrong with either. It's just something I've thought about as someone who was married to a Catholic woman for twenty years. Simply saying I think we all need to try and see each others side from their point of view more often, me included most of all.

Regardless of the way we both look at the sermon on the mount im sure we can both agree it's a beautiful piece of scripture on how we should live our lives.

Bob Lee said:

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Got a Natty! said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

---

What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

---

I'm positive Jesus did not mention any particular political candidate nor an issue that a certain named political candidate was endorsing. The Sermon on the Mount was not political at all. At least, not as we view politics in the United States.

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I think the way you view politics is deficient. Jesus definitely does mention the law and alludes to the government in His Sermon on the Mount.

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I would be very careful attributing intention from Jesus Christ. Maybe we should just listen and try to not assume we know what he's "alluding" to. THAT is a slippery slope that has caused a lot of unnecessary suffering for thousands of years.

Jesse Woods said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Got a Natty! said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Little Rock Ag said:

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The Gospel is not political. It's all about recognition that the Law has no power to save and that Jesus is the only one who can.

For those who are already believers, there will be necessary conversations about how to live in an immoral culture governed by authorities who are sometimes opposed to Christ. However, our primary purpose isn't to change the institutions but to live out the Gospel calling whether that aligns with the edicts of early rulers or not. The early Christians leave a powerful witness as to how faith and obedience were lived out in hostile societies and under oppressive governments.

---

What?! The sermon on the mount is the most profound political speech of all time.

The idea that well, after the incarnation there are no rules to live by anymore and politics is abolished...is a huge misread.

---

I'm positive Jesus did not mention any particular political candidate nor an issue that a certain named political candidate was endorsing. The Sermon on the Mount was not political at all. At least, not as we view politics in the United States.

---

I think the way you view politics is deficient. Jesus definitely does mention the law and alludes to the government in His Sermon on the Mount.

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I would be very careful attributing intention from Jesus Christ. Maybe we should just listen and try to not assume we know what he's "alluding" to. THAT is a slippery slope that has caused a lot of unnecessary suffering for thousands of years.

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They're not exactly veiled references. Who are their occupiers? Who are their oppressors? Who is persecuting them? Under whose law were could they be required to carry stuff up to a mile? It's the Romans. He's talking about the Romans.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Ag-Yoakum95 said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Churches are more than free to preach politics from the pulpit. But they should lose their tax exemption

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it's been this way for years in the black churches since that's where the Democrats like to go. Never an issue, but let a white, black, or brown republican show up in a church, and it becomes a major issue and the church needs to lose its tax exempt status. So stupid!

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So enforce the requirement for all or get rid of it. Many of you are incapable of discussing this topic logically and without emotion.

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Tell that to idiot Democrats.

JB99 - go tell that to many black ministers.

The left has intermixed politics and religion obsessively since Obama. They are currently fighting on a battlefield that most religious leaders don't have the courage to step foot on. Howerton got real active when Jimmy Talarico started speaking his absolute blasphemous nonsense and the openly gay pastors from abominations of "churches" started spraying instagram with sermons that are meant to separate followers from the true will of God. He's not a person preaching politics but a true leader who's teaching his flock how to deal with the politics that have invaded every facet of life.

I've attended his services a handful of time because my brother and his family are members. The worship style
isn't for me, but every sermon I've heard from him are some of the most biblically based enlightening things i've ever heard.

I'm now a listener to every one of his podcasts because they follow the Word, they enlighten the Word, and they teach you how to operate in a broken world.

Many pastors, including My old pastor at my methodist church in Richardson, never tackled the tough subject matter because they were scared to offend anyone. That's not what true Christianity is about.

Josh is a true shepherd

No tax exempt group should be allowed to become a political entity and still keep their tax exemption.

It's not a first amendment issue, you're not being kept from speaking. Freedom of speech is not freedom from repercussions...

you've now changed the discussion and thrown up a strawman.

he never said a church should be able to "become a political entity" and keep its exemption.

The discussion is squarely based around political things said from the pulpit. If you don't think that's protected speech free from government repercussions, then you need to find a new ChatGPT law school.

Ag_of_08 said:

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No tax exempt group should be allowed to become a political entity and still keep their tax exemption.

It's not a first amendment issue, you're not being kept from speaking. Freedom of speech is not freedom from repercussions...

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What is a community of people with their own governance but a political entity?

Ag_of_08 said:

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No tax exempt group should be allowed to become a political entity and still keep their tax exemption.

It's not a first amendment issue, you're not being kept from speaking. Freedom of speech is not freedom from repercussions...

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What about 527s?

I haven't read all 99 posts, but the only thing needing to be preached in church is the Word...Law and Gospel.

Now, some on the left may hear a Law and Gospel sermon and think it's political, but that's because their religion is politics, and everything they see and hear they do through the lens of politics.

But I would walk out of a sermon if the pastor started talking actual politics.

Every sermon should have some form of the following in it (note what's not there....answer at the bottom):

1. God's law is perfect.
2. You ain't and you can't be (thanks a lot Adam, you putz!)
3. Jesus is and thus he took your punishment for you.
4. Rejoice in #3 and live eternally with him.


No room for politics. That's a packed agenda for a 15-20 minute sermon.

Religion and politics are tough to separate.