Im saying Anthony Fauci and China are responsible for a large part of it.

Every addict was given a $1200 stimulus check around the time the graph spikes up...

policywonk98 said:

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txags92 said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

---

I don't really know if this graph is even an accurate display of information but as I noted in my post above yours. Go back to summer 2024. Biden administration was shifting border policy precisely because the policy was deeply unpopular compared to Trumps just four years prior and Trump and the entire GOP was running on the issue and democrats were way underwater on it. The changes were not based on a change in viewpoint, it was based on election.

---

I share your concerns about the accuracy/source of the data, but I am not questioning whether shutting down open borders helped the situation. All I was pointing out was that the OPs attribution of responsibility for the steep decline to "actions of the Trump Administration" is not supported by what is shown on the graph. The graph shows the upswing starting well before Biden was elected and the steep decline starting a year before Trump took office again.

The article Kansas Kid posted shows the same thing.

txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Yes, which ironically started when Biden actually realized there was a border issue…you know when he was up for reelection.

BadMoonRisin said:

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Im saying Anthony Fauci and China are responsible for a large part of it.

Every addict was given a $1200 stimulus check around the time the graph spikes up...

---

And who's name was on those checks and who says he makes all the final decisions in his administration. Also, the there was a step change increase from 2017 to 2020. So if Trump gets credit for this drop, you have to blame him for the increase in his first administration but you won't because Trump can do no wrong.

MelvinUdall said:

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txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Yes, which ironically started when Biden actually realized there was a border issue…you know when he was up for reelection.

---

Read the rest of the thread. I am not questioning that closing the border played a big role. I am questioning the OP's attribution of responsibility to "the actions of the Trump Administration", since the graph stops before 2025 begins and the second Trump Administration didn't begin until early January 2025.

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Im saying Anthony Fauci and China are responsible for a large part of it.

Every addict was given a $1200 stimulus check around the time the graph spikes up...

---

Agreed. And Trump's signed stimulus checks sure might have something to do with the increase as that time.

In the end, to me, Tump can't be credit every time he does something the right likes a la, "see HE'S doing..." and not faulted when what was done was when he was in the same seat as he is now.

I saw this article the other day. Note the standard hallmarks of AP drivel, as they seek to "explain" the reduced deaths, without specifically EVER going a hint of credit to our current administration.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/us-overdose-deaths-fell-most-180009112.html

Reasons provided in the article:

* increased availability of the overdose-reversing drug naloxone
* expanded addiction treatment
* shifts in how people use drugs
* the growing impact of billions of dollars in opioid lawsuit settlement money.
* China regulation changes may be having an impact - the Chinese government (at the urging of U.S. officials) took steps in 2023 to clamp down on the selling of substances used to make drugs [note, the Biden admin timeline!!]
* The recent deceleration of overdose deaths could be because producers in Canada and Mexico found alternative sources, Reuter and his colleagues think.
* Elimination of stimulus payments play - The researchers tracked the three rounds of pandemic stimulus payments to U.S. households in 2020 and 2021, and saw surges in overdose deaths after each one.

Laughable. It was only after bringing up how deadly stimulus payments are that they brought up Trump, in the context that he is thinking of $2,000 tariff reduction checks. Trump also canceled more than 2,000 programs that support mental health.

Unreal.

policywonk98 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

---

I don't really know if this graph is even an accurate display of information but as I noted in my post above yours. Go back to summer 2024. Biden administration was shifting border policy precisely because the policy was deeply unpopular compared to Trumps just four years prior and Trump and the entire GOP was running on the issue and democrats were way underwater on it. The changes were not based on a change in viewpoint, it was based on election.

---

This is a fact that people have clearly forgotten.

Also a fact is that illegals crossing our southern borders have all but stopped since Trump was re-elected. Also fact is that China was feeding our fentanyl issue via Mexican cartels. By default, logic and common sense will tell you that fentanyl making it into this crossing via the southern border has been impacted (reduced) and therefore fentanyl deaths should be lower than they were regardless of this graph.

Thus, we are majoring in minors in this thread. Fentanyl deaths are down partly (mostly?) because the border has been locked down and we should celebrate that. End of story.

txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Biden (or whoever was in charge) started to close up the border prior to the elections to try to take the border and this issue off the table as much as possible. Numbers went down some. Then Trump came in and got serious and illegal immigration and fentanyl have fallen like a rock.

work isn't done yet. synthetic opioids are still going to keep coming. keep it up.

Note: Biden didn't realize anything. He didn't even know where he was when he was ****ting his pampers.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

Well, he's pointing out that unless the graph was made in a way that no graph has ever been made before, the timeline of the red box is wrong, unless Biden shut down the border in his last year as president, which I don't think happened.

That's how you're wrong.

---

Biden didn't shut the border his last year but he absolutely tightened up the border which is part of why it spiked downward. He wanted to remove a very unpopular issue prior to the election by showing progress from historically horrific to just really terrible. Then had Kamala been elected they would have opened it wide again.

aggie93 said:

---

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

Well, he's pointing out that unless the graph was made in a way that no graph has ever been made before, the timeline of the red box is wrong, unless Biden shut down the border in his last year as president, which I don't think happened.

That's how you're wrong.

---

Biden didn't shut the border his last year but he absolutely tightened up the border which is part of why it spiked downward. He wanted to remove a very unpopular issue prior to the election by showing progress from historically horrific to just really terrible. Then had Kamala been elected they would have opened it wide again.

---

If shutting down the border is the single biggest reason for the decrease, why did they spike in 2020 when the border was also closed during Covid?

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Biden (or whoever was in charge) started to close up the border prior to the elections to try to take the border and this issue off the table as much as possible. Numbers went down some. Then Trump came in and got serious and illegal immigration and fentanyl have fallen like a rock.

---

I agree with your description. But the graph doesn't show any of that beyond the first two sentences because it stops before Trump took over in 2025.

txags92 said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

---

Lol, what a stretch. The numbers are drastically lower under Trump and only dropped in the run up to the election when they were trying to take the issue off the table for Biden/Harris. Even then after the "drop" the numbers were horrific. Dems knew that the border issue was a catalyst. It's not like Biden or Harris were out there talking about the fentanyl issue and how it aligned with the border as Trump was, they were just hoping people would move on from it. Trump has aggressively gone after the border and cracking down on the cartels and it is working literally to the tune of thousands of lives saved per month.

If you want to talk about "intellectual dishonesty" it is to try to act as though Trump's actions haven't had a MASSIVE impact on Fentanyl deaths when it is an issue he campaigned on and has taken drastic action on. At best you are trying to look at some numbers on the margins and ignoring the obvious trends.

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

---

Lol, what a stretch. The numbers are drastically lower under Trump and only dropped in the run up to the election when they were trying to take the issue off the table for Biden/Harris. Even then after the "drop" the numbers were horrific. Dems knew that the border issue was a catalyst. It's not like Biden or Harris were out there talking about the fentanyl issue and how it aligned with the border as Trump was, they were just hoping people would move on from it. Trump has aggressively gone after the border and cracking down on the cartels and it is working literally to the tune of thousands of lives saved per month.

If you want to talk about "intellectual dishonesty" it is to try to act as though Trump's actions haven't had a MASSIVE impact on Fentanyl deaths when it is an issue he campaigned on and has taken drastic action on. At best you are trying to look at some numbers on the margins and ignoring the obvious trends.

---

You are putting words in my mouth. I have not, do not, and will not claim Trump has not had an impact. I voted for him and support everything he is doing related to the border, immigration, and drug trafficking. All I am pointing out is that the graph you posted in the OP shows nothing about what is happening in 2025 and Trump did not come into office again until January 2025. So to show that graph and claim it as evidence that "the actions of the Trump Administration" caused what is shown is disingenuous.

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Biden (or whoever was in charge) started to close up the border prior to the elections to try to take the border and this issue off the table as much as possible. Numbers went down some. Then Trump came in and got serious and illegal immigration and fentanyl have fallen like a rock.

---

I agree with your description. But the graph doesn't show any of that beyond the first two sentences because it stops before Trump took over in 2025.

---

Here is the CDC graph that is slightly less abrupt because it keeps a 12 month rolling average. Deaths are continuing to fall off a cliff and the reported numbers are even lower than the projected which were already showing a drop. The numbers spiked drastically under Biden and border policy and cracking down on the cartels is the most obvious reason. You have to really stretch not to give Trump credit on this issue.

CDC numbers

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

---

Lol, what a stretch. The numbers are drastically lower under Trump and only dropped in the run up to the election when they were trying to take the issue off the table for Biden/Harris. Even then after the "drop" the numbers were horrific. Dems knew that the border issue was a catalyst. It's not like Biden or Harris were out there talking about the fentanyl issue and how it aligned with the border as Trump was, they were just hoping people would move on from it. Trump has aggressively gone after the border and cracking down on the cartels and it is working literally to the tune of thousands of lives saved per month.

If you want to talk about "intellectual dishonesty" it is to try to act as though Trump's actions haven't had a MASSIVE impact on Fentanyl deaths when it is an issue he campaigned on and has taken drastic action on. At best you are trying to look at some numbers on the margins and ignoring the obvious trends.

---

You are putting words in my mouth. I have not, do not, and will not claim Trump has not had an impact. I voted for him and support everything he is doing related to the border, immigration, and drug trafficking. All I am pointing out is that the graph you posted in the OP shows nothing about what is happening in 2025 and Trump did not come into office again until January 2025. So to show that graph and claim it as evidence that "the actions of the Trump Administration" caused what is shown is disingenuous.

---

Your first instinct was not to talk about Trump's actions though, your first instinct was to brush them off and actually give Biden credit. The continued drastic drop under Trump is also far more relevant than how the drop started technically while Biden was in office and was trying to take the issue off the table. Yet you are calling me intellectually dishonest.

Any way you slice it this is one of the best things Trump has done and deserves credit for. At a minimum his raising of the issue and prioritizing it influenced Biden's policy toward the end and his further enforcement of it is showing incredible results. If you look at the other link I posted it shows deaths are now well below Covid levels and dropping fast.

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Biden (or whoever was in charge) started to close up the border prior to the elections to try to take the border and this issue off the table as much as possible. Numbers went down some. Then Trump came in and got serious and illegal immigration and fentanyl have fallen like a rock.

---

I agree with your description. But the graph doesn't show any of that beyond the first two sentences because it stops before Trump took over in 2025.

---

Here is the CDC graph that is slightly less abrupt because it keeps a 12 month rolling average. Deaths are continuing to fall off a cliff and the reported numbers are even lower than the projected which were already showing a drop. The numbers spiked drastically under Biden and border policy and cracking down on the cartels is the most obvious reason. You have to really stretch not to give Trump credit on this issue.

CDC numbers

---

There is a difference between "Trump being in the race and making immigration a major election issue caused whoever was running Biden's autopen to close the border" and "the actions of the Trump administration in 2025 caused the decline that the graph shows in 2024". In either case, Trump deserves the majority of the credit for the decline, but one is an accurate statement and the other is a false attribution to what is visible on the graph provided in the OP.

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

Well, he's pointing out that unless the graph was made in a way that no graph has ever been made before, the timeline of the red box is wrong, unless Biden shut down the border in his last year as president, which I don't think happened.

That's how you're wrong.

---

Biden didn't shut the border his last year but he absolutely tightened up the border which is part of why it spiked downward. He wanted to remove a very unpopular issue prior to the election by showing progress from historically horrific to just really terrible. Then had Kamala been elected they would have opened it wide again.

---

If shutting down the border is the single biggest reason for the decrease, why did they spike in 2020 when the border was also closed during Covid?

---

There is a dip shown during the brief period the border was truly being locked down during Covid, the border really wasn't closed for long and we certainly weren't enforcing the border anything like we do now even under Trump I. That said it is a multi pronged issue along with enforcement and issue awareness. Trump made the issue a priority and has put real resources and effort into the problem and it's clearly working. There are a lot fewer people dying. Any way you slice it this is a huge positive and he deserves credit.

Doesn't the fall relate to Narcan being available OTC more than anything? Think even a lot of users now realize the extreme risks and keep that stuff on-hand/partake with a buddy.

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

FCBlitz said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

---

Lol, what a stretch. The numbers are drastically lower under Trump and only dropped in the run up to the election when they were trying to take the issue off the table for Biden/Harris. Even then after the "drop" the numbers were horrific. Dems knew that the border issue was a catalyst. It's not like Biden or Harris were out there talking about the fentanyl issue and how it aligned with the border as Trump was, they were just hoping people would move on from it. Trump has aggressively gone after the border and cracking down on the cartels and it is working literally to the tune of thousands of lives saved per month.

If you want to talk about "intellectual dishonesty" it is to try to act as though Trump's actions haven't had a MASSIVE impact on Fentanyl deaths when it is an issue he campaigned on and has taken drastic action on. At best you are trying to look at some numbers on the margins and ignoring the obvious trends.

---

You are putting words in my mouth. I have not, do not, and will not claim Trump has not had an impact. I voted for him and support everything he is doing related to the border, immigration, and drug trafficking. All I am pointing out is that the graph you posted in the OP shows nothing about what is happening in 2025 and Trump did not come into office again until January 2025. So to show that graph and claim it as evidence that "the actions of the Trump Administration" caused what is shown is disingenuous.

---

Your first instinct was not to talk about Trump's actions though, your first instinct was to brush them off and actually give Biden credit. The continued drastic drop under Trump is also far more relevant than how the drop started technically while Biden was in office and was trying to take the issue off the table. Yet you are calling me intellectually dishonest.

Any way you slice it this is one of the best things Trump has done and deserves credit for. At a minimum his raising of the issue and prioritizing it influenced Biden's policy toward the end and his further enforcement of it is showing incredible results. If you look at the other link I posted it shows deaths are now well below Covid levels and dropping fast.

---

My first instinct was to state that the graph didn't show anything that happened due to "the actions of the Trump administration" because the graph ended before 2025 started. That is a fact that is not contestable. There was no Trump administration in 2024 and the graph ends before there was. It is you that keeps claiming I want to give credit to Biden. I was not making a statement of who was ultimately responsible and have agreed with you and others multiple times that Trump's influence on the race likely had a major affect on the actions of the Biden administration.

Again…since it seems hard to understand for you and others…I was simply pointing out that the graph ended before the Trump administration began in 2025. Nothing more than that. Re-read my first and subsequent posts and point out to me where I have argued that Biden deserves any credit.

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Biden (or whoever was in charge) started to close up the border prior to the elections to try to take the border and this issue off the table as much as possible. Numbers went down some. Then Trump came in and got serious and illegal immigration and fentanyl have fallen like a rock.

---

I agree with your description. But the graph doesn't show any of that beyond the first two sentences because it stops before Trump took over in 2025.

---

Here is the CDC graph that is slightly less abrupt because it keeps a 12 month rolling average. Deaths are continuing to fall off a cliff and the reported numbers are even lower than the projected which were already showing a drop. The numbers spiked drastically under Biden and border policy and cracking down on the cartels is the most obvious reason. You have to really stretch not to give Trump credit on this issue.

CDC numbers

---

There is a difference between "Trump being in the race and making immigration a major election issue caused whoever was running Biden's autopen to close the border" and "the actions of the Trump administration in 2025 caused the decline that the graph shows in 2024". In either case, Trump deserves the majority of the credit for the decline, but one is an accurate statement and the other is a false attribution to what is visible on the graph provided in the OP.

---

This is my OP:

Quote:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

I don't talk about 2024 or when the drop started, you did. I talked about how the numbers are falling off a cliff under Trump which they are. The fact the numbers started to decline in 2024 is true but it doesn't detract from my point because the numbers have continued to decline rapidly. As for why they declined in 2024 I have spoken to that, Trump had made it an issue in the campaign and Biden (or whomever was running the WH) did make some actions on the border to try to soften the issue in the run up to the election. The numbers were still horrific in 2024 but they were better than the prior couple of years when Biden completely ignored the issue. This is a Trump W any way you want to look at it and that is what I stated in my OP.

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

---

Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

---

Biden (or whoever was in charge) started to close up the border prior to the elections to try to take the border and this issue off the table as much as possible. Numbers went down some. Then Trump came in and got serious and illegal immigration and fentanyl have fallen like a rock.

---

I agree with your description. But the graph doesn't show any of that beyond the first two sentences because it stops before Trump took over in 2025.

---

Here is the CDC graph that is slightly less abrupt because it keeps a 12 month rolling average. Deaths are continuing to fall off a cliff and the reported numbers are even lower than the projected which were already showing a drop. The numbers spiked drastically under Biden and border policy and cracking down on the cartels is the most obvious reason. You have to really stretch not to give Trump credit on this issue.

CDC numbers

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There is a difference between "Trump being in the race and making immigration a major election issue caused whoever was running Biden's autopen to close the border" and "the actions of the Trump administration in 2025 caused the decline that the graph shows in 2024". In either case, Trump deserves the majority of the credit for the decline, but one is an accurate statement and the other is a false attribution to what is visible on the graph provided in the OP.

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This is my OP:

Quote:

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The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

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I don't talk about 2024 or when the drop started, you did. I talked about how the numbers are falling off a cliff under Trump which they are. The fact the numbers started to decline in 2024 is true but it doesn't detract from my point because the numbers have continued to decline rapidly. As for why they declined in 2024 I have spoken to that, Trump had made it an issue in the campaign and Biden (or whomever was running the WH) did make some actions on the border to try to soften the issue in the run up to the election. The numbers were still horrific in 2024 but they were better than the prior couple of years when Biden completely ignored the issue. This is a Trump W any way you want to look at it and that is what I stated in my OP.

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You posted a graph in support of that OP statement that stopped before the Trump administration took office. I didn't and have not objected in any way to your statement that Trumps policies have saved lives or that it was terrific news. All I said was that the graph showed a decline starting before he took office and didn't show any data after he took office. That is an entirely factual and non-partisan statement. The graph posted to support your statement didn't support your statement. That is all I said. You have manufactured a narrative in your own mind of what you think I am saying, and much like your OP, the narrative is not supported by what I have actually said.

txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

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txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

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txags92 said:

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FCBlitz said:

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txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

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Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

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What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

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What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

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Lol, what a stretch. The numbers are drastically lower under Trump and only dropped in the run up to the election when they were trying to take the issue off the table for Biden/Harris. Even then after the "drop" the numbers were horrific. Dems knew that the border issue was a catalyst. It's not like Biden or Harris were out there talking about the fentanyl issue and how it aligned with the border as Trump was, they were just hoping people would move on from it. Trump has aggressively gone after the border and cracking down on the cartels and it is working literally to the tune of thousands of lives saved per month.

If you want to talk about "intellectual dishonesty" it is to try to act as though Trump's actions haven't had a MASSIVE impact on Fentanyl deaths when it is an issue he campaigned on and has taken drastic action on. At best you are trying to look at some numbers on the margins and ignoring the obvious trends.

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You are putting words in my mouth. I have not, do not, and will not claim Trump has not had an impact. I voted for him and support everything he is doing related to the border, immigration, and drug trafficking. All I am pointing out is that the graph you posted in the OP shows nothing about what is happening in 2025 and Trump did not come into office again until January 2025. So to show that graph and claim it as evidence that "the actions of the Trump Administration" caused what is shown is disingenuous.

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Your first instinct was not to talk about Trump's actions though, your first instinct was to brush them off and actually give Biden credit. The continued drastic drop under Trump is also far more relevant than how the drop started technically while Biden was in office and was trying to take the issue off the table. Yet you are calling me intellectually dishonest.

Any way you slice it this is one of the best things Trump has done and deserves credit for. At a minimum his raising of the issue and prioritizing it influenced Biden's policy toward the end and his further enforcement of it is showing incredible results. If you look at the other link I posted it shows deaths are now well below Covid levels and dropping fast.

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My first instinct was to state that the graph didn't show anything that happened due to "the actions of the Trump administration" because the graph ended before 2025 started. That is a fact that is not contestable. There was no Trump administration in 2024 and the graph ends before there was. It is you that keeps claiming I want to give credit to Biden. I was not making a statement of who was ultimately responsible and have agreed with you and others multiple times that Trump's influence on the race likely had a major affect on the actions of the Biden administration.

Again…since it seems hard to understand for you and others…I was simply pointing out that the graph ended before the Trump administration began in 2025. Nothing more than that. Re-read my first and subsequent posts and point out to me where I have argued that Biden deserves any credit.

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You said I put words in your mouth and that I was intellectually dishonest. Yet your post is all about 2024 and stressing the importance of the dip starting before Trump was President (thus under Biden) and I also showed that my OP said nothing about 2024 or the beginning of the dip only that the deaths are falling off a cliff under Trump (which they are).

I'm happy to admit when I am wrong and have done so many, many times on this site but I don't see where I said anything that was wrong. If you can show me where I said that the drop only started under Trump then you would have a point but I did not. I also have pointed out that the far more important number is where they are now which is a continued drastic decline and that is to Trump's credit. I also provided supporting data from the CDC.

ts5641 said:

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Nothing to see here. Trump is literally Hitler.

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Literally?

How does that work - reincarnation? cloning?

Read a few books on Hitler.

Hating Trump is understandable, but the Hitler comparisons indicates ignorance of historical facts.

aggie93 said:

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txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

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txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

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txags92 said:

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FCBlitz said:

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txags92 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The actions of the Trump administration have literally saved thousands of American lives every month. Absolutely fantastic news.

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Unless those year markers are showing end of the year instead of the beginning, that drop started a year before Trump took office in January 2025.

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What a pathetic attempt to poop on good news. If you can't accept that there was fentanyl pouring in at the same time as the open border doesn't correlate, followed by the correlation of the blockade to cut the supply off then are so brainwashed it is sad.

Let's see.

Supply high equals death count high. Check

Supply is cut to near zero the death count drastically drop. Check.


…but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

---

What a pathetic misunderstanding of the point of my post. This is obviously great news. But to claim it as the result of actions by the Trump administration as the OP did is intellectually dishonest, since the "closing the border" line shown on the graph appears alongside a large drop in deaths that occurred in 2024, a year before Trump took office.

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Lol, what a stretch. The numbers are drastically lower under Trump and only dropped in the run up to the election when they were trying to take the issue off the table for Biden/Harris. Even then after the "drop" the numbers were horrific. Dems knew that the border issue was a catalyst. It's not like Biden or Harris were out there talking about the fentanyl issue and how it aligned with the border as Trump was, they were just hoping people would move on from it. Trump has aggressively gone after the border and cracking down on the cartels and it is working literally to the tune of thousands of lives saved per month.

If you want to talk about "intellectual dishonesty" it is to try to act as though Trump's actions haven't had a MASSIVE impact on Fentanyl deaths when it is an issue he campaigned on and has taken drastic action on. At best you are trying to look at some numbers on the margins and ignoring the obvious trends.

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You are putting words in my mouth. I have not, do not, and will not claim Trump has not had an impact. I voted for him and support everything he is doing related to the border, immigration, and drug trafficking. All I am pointing out is that the graph you posted in the OP shows nothing about what is happening in 2025 and Trump did not come into office again until January 2025. So to show that graph and claim it as evidence that "the actions of the Trump Administration" caused what is shown is disingenuous.

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Your first instinct was not to talk about Trump's actions though, your first instinct was to brush them off and actually give Biden credit. The continued drastic drop under Trump is also far more relevant than how the drop started technically while Biden was in office and was trying to take the issue off the table. Yet you are calling me intellectually dishonest.

Any way you slice it this is one of the best things Trump has done and deserves credit for. At a minimum his raising of the issue and prioritizing it influenced Biden's policy toward the end and his further enforcement of it is showing incredible results. If you look at the other link I posted it shows deaths are now well below Covid levels and dropping fast.

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My first instinct was to state that the graph didn't show anything that happened due to "the actions of the Trump administration" because the graph ended before 2025 started. That is a fact that is not contestable. There was no Trump administration in 2024 and the graph ends before there was. It is you that keeps claiming I want to give credit to Biden. I was not making a statement of who was ultimately responsible and have agreed with you and others multiple times that Trump's influence on the race likely had a major affect on the actions of the Biden administration.

Again…since it seems hard to understand for you and others…I was simply pointing out that the graph ended before the Trump administration began in 2025. Nothing more than that. Re-read my first and subsequent posts and point out to me where I have argued that Biden deserves any credit.

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You said I put words in your mouth and that I was intellectually dishonest. Yet your post is all about 2024 and stressing the importance of the dip starting before Trump was President (thus under Biden) and I also showed that my OP said nothing about 2024 or the beginning of the dip only that the deaths are falling off a cliff under Trump (which they are).

I'm happy to admit when I am wrong and have done so many, many times on this site but I don't see where I said anything that was wrong. If you can show me where I said that the drop only started under Trump then you would have a point but I did not. I also have pointed out that the far more important number is where they are now which is a continued drastic decline and that is to Trump's credit. I also provided supporting data from the CDC.

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There you go putting words in my mouth again. Show me how I "stressed the importance of the dip starting in 2024". All I said was that the graph didn't show any data from 2025 and that "Trump's administration" was inaugurated in 2025. The intellectual dishonesty comment was simply that you were using a graph that ended prior to 2025 to support giving credit to actions that happened in 2025 for what the graph showed happening in 2024. If you had posted the CDC source you posted later in your OP instead, I likely never would have posted on the thread at all because it is much better support for your OP. We don't disagree on what happened or who deserves the lion's share of the credit or whether it is great news, so I am not sure why you are still arguing with me about this. The graph you posted didn't support the way you worded the OP and the timeframe of data on the graph was all I objected to.

So there is a debate with people defending the stance that either Biden stopped fentanyl deaths or fentanyl deaths just stopped on their own before Trump took office. Amazing.

SJEAg said:

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Doesn't the fall relate to Narcan being available OTC more than anything? Think even a lot of users now realize the extreme risks and keep that stuff on-hand/partake with a buddy.

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That definitely might.

Think of the poor drug dealers.
Now their income has been slashed. /Libs

oh no said:

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So there is a debate with people defending the stance that either Biden stopped fentanyl deaths or fentanyl deaths just stopped on their own before Trump took office. Amazing.

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They literally can't help themselves.
It's actually very pathetic.

Biden, well those that controlled Biden, figured if we can't kill you in the womb, we will do so later with fentanyl.

oh no said:

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So there is a debate with people defending the stance that either Biden stopped fentanyl deaths or fentanyl deaths just stopped on their own before Trump took office. Amazing.

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Is it possible that another factor to the death totals going down is because people who were more likely to take those drugs killed themselves by taking the drug and others who were taking them learned or moved on to other drugs?