Thank you for sharing, I will consider this. We are still struggling to even have open communication about it. We still have a great relationship with her at this point.
My child is being pulled into Mormonism, I need help
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Last: 7 days ago by AGC
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values, and they procreate vehemently, which is also helpful (and likely pretty fun).
But their theology and history is very, very ugly.
Brigham Young and Joseph Smith both acted like the leader of the Branch Davidians, completely abusing their place of power in the church. For me, research into the lives of the founders killed my interest in Mormonism quickly.
I still openly support the LDS church because I think that they do a lot of good, and there are much worse dogmas to live by as far as impacting the culture of the nation. LDS are my second favorite "non-Christian" religious type next to Sikhs, who absolutely rock.
But their theology (both Mormon's and Sikh's) is very, very weird.
But their theology and history is very, very ugly.
Brigham Young and Joseph Smith both acted like the leader of the Branch Davidians, completely abusing their place of power in the church. For me, research into the lives of the founders killed my interest in Mormonism quickly.
I still openly support the LDS church because I think that they do a lot of good, and there are much worse dogmas to live by as far as impacting the culture of the nation. LDS are my second favorite "non-Christian" religious type next to Sikhs, who absolutely rock.
But their theology (both Mormon's and Sikh's) is very, very weird.
I came to this forum for the first time this morning. My eldest niece is Mormon, and this thread caught my eye.
My niece is 40 and has 6 kids (HS -> K). She was diagnosed mid - Oct with stage 4 cancer. It had already metastasized to almost every major organ (liver, bladder, lungs...). She is trying a couple of "moon-shot" meds, but realistically the outcome is pretty certain and immediate.
It is very comforting at the secular level to know the help her family is getting already from her Mormon ward, and for years into the future, if necessary. People helping with care, education, domestic tasks... The Mormons do really do many of the trappings of Christianity better than most. I love my niece, but knowing her husband will be encouraged to remarry quickly "for the good of the kids", is also strangely (perhaps?) comforting.
I am not sure that going at the roots of Mormonism is the best way to go, if your daughter is not already deeply invested in faith. It may seem unimportant to her at this point in her young life. Compared to being part of the service above
The thing that bothers me the worst about Mormonism was the way it drew my brother-in-law away from us and his family. We are family, but at best, family with a large asterisk. She needs to know this will likely happen to her as well.
I am not against her becoming Mormon, btw. But I know you are, and respect that. Godspeed.
My niece is 40 and has 6 kids (HS -> K). She was diagnosed mid - Oct with stage 4 cancer. It had already metastasized to almost every major organ (liver, bladder, lungs...). She is trying a couple of "moon-shot" meds, but realistically the outcome is pretty certain and immediate.
It is very comforting at the secular level to know the help her family is getting already from her Mormon ward, and for years into the future, if necessary. People helping with care, education, domestic tasks... The Mormons do really do many of the trappings of Christianity better than most. I love my niece, but knowing her husband will be encouraged to remarry quickly "for the good of the kids", is also strangely (perhaps?) comforting.
I am not sure that going at the roots of Mormonism is the best way to go, if your daughter is not already deeply invested in faith. It may seem unimportant to her at this point in her young life. Compared to being part of the service above
The thing that bothers me the worst about Mormonism was the way it drew my brother-in-law away from us and his family. We are family, but at best, family with a large asterisk. She needs to know this will likely happen to her as well.
I am not against her becoming Mormon, btw. But I know you are, and respect that. Godspeed.
BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
10andBOUNCE said:BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
Don't disagree but wonder when an atheist finds a cure for a cancer that saves lives? Is that God working through the atheist without the atheist being aware? Or is it really "good"?
And Mormonism is even sticker because they claim love for Jesus.
I think all good comes from God even if it is done through a non believer.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
You're more than welcome-my mom (the poster above) told me about this situation and I have been praying for your daughter every night since. This is Lexi typing, her daughter. It would be a privilege to use what I went through to help your daughter or anyone else who is going through this situation. I recognize that I have a unique background in this and as a Christian, a responsibility to help. PLEASE email me to get my contact info; I also have a document on Christian Apologetics that I wrote myself to help my bible study students compare religions, including LDS to learn what we believe. It's a PDF I'd be so happy to send anyone who is interested. My email is leximinton@icloud.com. Praying for y'all; please reach out! Love always hopes and always perseveres- 1 Cor 13:7
ATXAggieMom said:
You're more than welcome-my mom (the poster above) told me about this situation and I have been praying for your daughter every night since. This is Lexi typing, her daughter. It would be a privilege to use what I went through to help your daughter or anyone else who is going through this situation. I recognize that I have a unique background in this and as a Christian, a responsibility to help. PLEASE email me to get my contact info; I also have a document on Christian Apologetics that I wrote myself to help my bible study students compare religions, including LDS to learn what we believe. It's a PDF I'd be so happy to send anyone who is interested. My email is leximinton@icloud.com. Praying for y'all; please reach out! Love always hopes and always perseveres- 1 Cor 13:7
Thank you, Lexi! I appreciate it. I just sent an email a few minutes ago, so it's good to remove the email from the post above.
Thank you!
Martin Q. Blank said:Maximus of Tejas said:
Do people not know about Smith's legal troubles and his seer stones? The dude was an obvious fraud
I agree he is obviously a fraud and he made up this religion to benefit himself.
But don't most of God's chosen prophets have a troubled past?
Ex. 2:14 He answered, "Who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?" Then Moses was afraid, and thought, "Surely the thing is known."
There's a stark difference. Some, perhaps most of the OT prophets did some things that were not in line with the covenants, even Moses. But though and through, after becoming a prophet, their words ring true. This is the mark of a false prophet, stated many times throughout, if their words do not reflect truth, know them to be a false prophet.
Joseph Smith's words often were proven false, even in his lifetime. Mormons counter this by saying it's always true when they're speaking as a prophet, just not when they speak for themselves. Yet, this claim falls flat, as Mormon "prophets" have made claims they said came from revelation that turned out to be false. Even Joseph Smith made claims that he said were revelations from God that ended up being false. He even admitted on one particular occasion that it was the devil who sent him that message. How can anybody believe anything he has said if he openly admits that he isn't able to distinguish messages from God from messages from the devil?
To get ahead of criticism, there were two examples. Joseph made a claim that God told him to sell the publishing rights in Canada to the book or Mormon. He sent somebody up there to do that, hey were unable to make a deal, and JS said it was actually the devil that sent him that message.
The other example is the infamous Kinderhook plates. There were plates that were said to have a similar origin to the gold plates that began this thing. They were brought to Joseph Smith, he prayed over it and received a revelation that they were indeed from God. They were actually made of brass by a blacksmith a few years earlier as a hoax, and JS was embarrassed yet again.
It was actually a fairly common thing in that time period for people to claim to have found ancient documents and artifacts that were message from God. Many end of days cults, like LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses made the same kinds of claims. Martin Harris, the funding behind the book of Mormon, who was later excommunicated from LDS, went and joined another similar group, who had also found ancient scrolls they claimed to be from God. Martin Harris signed as a witness to those documents as well.
These are facts, documented in LDS church's own histories, but since they challenge the official narratives and shine a bad light on their prophet, members will call it "anti-mormon propaganda", because they don't know their own church's history, and they're not allowed to investigate it on their own. It's the classic "anyone who doesn't agree with us is a liar and should be ignored" that is the most basic fundamental part of any cult.
JS was just a really good orator, which is why his cult managed to grow so big.
My daughter is back from school for Christmas break, I've put together a list of things to talk about. I had a great conversation with ATXAggieMom's daughter, her story really helped me to see things better, and she gave me great advice on phrasing my questions more constructively. She is truly a wonderful woman, and her faith is inspiring to me.
I gave my daughter a several days before I brought the topic up this evening, that I wanted to just spend some time with her and talk over some things about LDS. She said, "I'm not interested in that anymore, don't worry". Her tone was that of "don't bother me, I don't want to have that conversation". I didn't press further for why she is no longer interested, she only said she didn't want to talk about it.
I reminded her that I love her, gave her a hug, and asked her to please keep us in the loop if she ever becomes interested in it again.
I had noticed she didn't go to LDS church with her boyfriend the past few weekends, including over Thanksgiving weekend, so I was hopeful. She also had a latte in her hand when I picked her up from college, something she has not had in a while to my knowledge. I was hopeful, but didn't want to bring it up just yet. Prayers have been answered! The boyfriend is still around, so I'm still uneasy that it may come back, but he's a good kid. For now, Christ is back on top for her, the insidious cult is out, and I am so overjoyed!
Thank you all for the help and prayers. A soul was saved today, in no small part to the prayers, support, and advice from people here. I would still like to know what brought this change about, mostly so I can help others, and also to remind her of her own reasons should it come up again, and I will certainly pass that along. Now is not the time, perhaps we can talk later, or perhaps my wife is better suited to the task.
I gave my daughter a several days before I brought the topic up this evening, that I wanted to just spend some time with her and talk over some things about LDS. She said, "I'm not interested in that anymore, don't worry". Her tone was that of "don't bother me, I don't want to have that conversation". I didn't press further for why she is no longer interested, she only said she didn't want to talk about it.
I reminded her that I love her, gave her a hug, and asked her to please keep us in the loop if she ever becomes interested in it again.
I had noticed she didn't go to LDS church with her boyfriend the past few weekends, including over Thanksgiving weekend, so I was hopeful. She also had a latte in her hand when I picked her up from college, something she has not had in a while to my knowledge. I was hopeful, but didn't want to bring it up just yet. Prayers have been answered! The boyfriend is still around, so I'm still uneasy that it may come back, but he's a good kid. For now, Christ is back on top for her, the insidious cult is out, and I am so overjoyed!
Thank you all for the help and prayers. A soul was saved today, in no small part to the prayers, support, and advice from people here. I would still like to know what brought this change about, mostly so I can help others, and also to remind her of her own reasons should it come up again, and I will certainly pass that along. Now is not the time, perhaps we can talk later, or perhaps my wife is better suited to the task.
Great to hear. Prayer is powerful.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Awesome~
I have always felt God works in Coffee Hour.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
-Havelock Vetinari
Mormons believe in a different Jesus.
Catholics and Protestants agree that Jesus is God in the flesh.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:1
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us…"
John 1:14a
So even though their name includes "Church of Jesus Christ," Mormons believe in an altogether different Jesus than Catholics and Protestants do, upon which we claim our salvation thanks to the blood He shed on the cross for us.
Catholics and Protestants agree that Jesus is God in the flesh.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:1
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us…"
John 1:14a
So even though their name includes "Church of Jesus Christ," Mormons believe in an altogether different Jesus than Catholics and Protestants do, upon which we claim our salvation thanks to the blood He shed on the cross for us.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
10andBOUNCE said:BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
I would say that I believe that Mormon family values IS rooted in Christ. I don't doubt their motivation for one iota, to credit for them.
The only sin I think that they have is the whole adding things to the scriptures thing, which I have a problem with. Mormons would obviously disagree. That's OK with me.
But, I find your post to be unfair and untrue.
dermdoc said:10andBOUNCE said:BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
Don't disagree but wonder when an atheist finds a cure for a cancer that saves lives? Is that God working through the atheist without the atheist being aware? Or is it really "good"?
And Mormonism is even sticker because they claim love for Jesus.
I think all good comes from God even if it is done through a non believer.
You really can love Jesus and just be misguided.
Let's talk about what the actual disagreements are. Love for Jesus is not one of them, in my experience, at least not at the individual believer level.
Email sent. I have similar material, but it is all in powerpoint format to support bible lessons, not really stand alone material. Happy to share what I have, but it probably needs a talk track to go with it. Happy to share with those interested.
A series of threads about Why I Am Not...... might actually be interesting, especially if we include Catholicism and Christianity in general.
Will get violent at times, I imagine, if my experience on this board for more than 2 decades serves me well. But there are enough rational contributors from all sides that it might be interesting.
I have never done a lesson on Why I Am Not a Mormon. Excited to receive your material.
A series of threads about Why I Am Not...... might actually be interesting, especially if we include Catholicism and Christianity in general.
Will get violent at times, I imagine, if my experience on this board for more than 2 decades serves me well. But there are enough rational contributors from all sides that it might be interesting.
I have never done a lesson on Why I Am Not a Mormon. Excited to receive your material.
BusterAg said:10andBOUNCE said:BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
I would say that I believe that Mormon family values IS rooted in Christ. I don't doubt their motivation for one iota, to credit for them.
The only sin I think that they have is the whole adding things to the scriptures thing, which I have a problem with. Mormons would obviously disagree. That's OK with me.
But, I find your post to be unfair and untrue.
Did you grow up in a predominantly Mormon town (especially a smaller one)? Non-Mormons do not experience these family values and loving charity that most associate with their religion. They're on display when Mormons are small contingents but I have friends from back in the day who were excluded from everything by these 'family values' people, not for sin mind you, but for not being Mormon.
AGC said:BusterAg said:10andBOUNCE said:BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
I would say that I believe that Mormon family values IS rooted in Christ. I don't doubt their motivation for one iota, to credit for them.
The only sin I think that they have is the whole adding things to the scriptures thing, which I have a problem with. Mormons would obviously disagree. That's OK with me.
But, I find your post to be unfair and untrue.
Did you grow up in a predominantly Mormon town (especially a smaller one)? Non-Mormons do not experience these family values and loving charity that most associate with their religion. They're on display when Mormons are small contingents but I have friends from back in the day who were excluded from everything by these 'family values' people, not for sin mind you, but for not being Mormon.
Tribalism is a universal tendency. Faulting any one group for displays of tribalism is not going to get you far, IMO.
Regardless of the people that stay close to the temple to be more and more in the "in" crowd, the family values are still their, even if the charity to the outsider is less than could be desired.
Basically, even the most exclusionist Mormon still likely teaches their kids about love, charity, productivity, and the like. Singling out communities where the people that value tribalism the most as representative of what the majority in Mormons actually feel would not be appropriate. Maybe you were not insinuating that, but it could easily read like you were.
Generally, Mormons that I have run into have very good family values. Much better than many other cultures.
BusterAg said:AGC said:BusterAg said:10andBOUNCE said:BusterAg said:
I generally love Mormons because I think that they have such good family values
This is all well and good but without love rooted in Christ it is ultimately a noisy gong
I would say that I believe that Mormon family values IS rooted in Christ. I don't doubt their motivation for one iota, to credit for them.
The only sin I think that they have is the whole adding things to the scriptures thing, which I have a problem with. Mormons would obviously disagree. That's OK with me.
But, I find your post to be unfair and untrue.
Did you grow up in a predominantly Mormon town (especially a smaller one)? Non-Mormons do not experience these family values and loving charity that most associate with their religion. They're on display when Mormons are small contingents but I have friends from back in the day who were excluded from everything by these 'family values' people, not for sin mind you, but for not being Mormon.
Tribalism is a universal tendency. Faulting any one group for displays of tribalism is not going to get you far, IMO.
Regardless of the people that stay close to the temple to be more and more in the "in" crowd, the family values are still their, even if the charity to the outsider is less than could be desired.
Basically, even the most exclusionist Mormon still likely teaches their kids about love, charity, productivity, and the like. Singling out communities where the people that value tribalism the most as representative of what the majority in Mormons actually feel would not be appropriate. Maybe you were not insinuating that, but it could easily read like you were.
Generally, Mormons that I have run into have very good family values. Much better than many other cultures.
It cuts many ways. I lived in Idaho. I had Mormon friends who were judged by their own society based on how much they gave. Not so great to be a low income one.
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