Pope Leo thinks Elon Musk is paid too much

4,349 Views | 82 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by Windy City Ag
Quo Vadis?
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Yukon Cornelius said:

It is theft. You can create any justifications you want but you are arbitrarily advocating for taking away someone's property because they have more of it than others.

We should be more concerned with Gods perspective not our own from positions of envy. Those with more will have to give an account to God for how they steward it.

There will always be people with more than you and those less than you. Do you consider yourself so righteous you know where the arbitrary lines of wealth lay that justify taking away?


It's not theft, because you can opt out. Your parents, when they consented to have you in the USA, consented for you to grow up in a society where taxation is the law of the land. You can always renounce your citizenship and leave. You don't get to be an American and decide which of the country's laws you get to follow.

Where you draw a line is tangential to the fact that a line needs to be drawn. You can argue that 45 is too slow of a speed limit, not that there doesn't need to be any sort of speed limits. Research the Greek roots of the word "economics", it has very little to do with supply and demand curves and lot to do with household management.
Patriot25
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PabloSerna said:

Well the difference is that Elon keeps all his money for himself and his family.


How do you know that?
Patriot25
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ramblin_ag02 said:

So we are just supposed to hope and trust the most economically powerful man in the world is just, kind, and benevolent?


In a free-market economy a person is free to become insanely rich and what they do with their money is nobody's business, particularly corrupt, useless, government, bureaucrats. People who are FREE to innovate and get rich drive innovation, economic growth, and generally pay a LOT in taxes.
The Pope is economically illiterate and unwise. "Vicar of Christ". Riiiiight.
Quo Vadis?
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Patriot25 said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

So we are just supposed to hope and trust the most economically powerful man in the world is just, kind, and benevolent?


In a free-market economy a person is free to become insanely rich and what they do with their money is nobody's business, particularly corrupt, useless, government, bureaucrats. People who are FREE to innovate and get rich drive innovation, economic growth, and generally pay a LOT in taxes.
The Pope is economically illiterate and unwise. "Vicar of Christ". Riiiiight.



Why isn't it anyone's business what they do with their money?
Patriot25
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PabloSerna said:

We can only hope that people like Elon, blessed with incredible wealth, chooses to build a better world and invest in people.


The Bible says that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter Heaven. However, we also know that Job was blessed by God and that he was very wealthy. Only Jesus can and will judge if a wealthy person is his follower - or not.
Patriot25
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Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

So we are just supposed to hope and trust the most economically powerful man in the world is just, kind, and benevolent?


In a free-market economy a person is free to become insanely rich and what they do with their money is nobody's business, particularly corrupt, useless, government, bureaucrats. People who are FREE to innovate and get rich drive innovation, economic growth, and generally pay a LOT in taxes.
The Pope is economically illiterate and unwise. "Vicar of Christ". Riiiiight.



Why isn't it anyone's business what they do with their money?



How is it my business what you do with your money?
Patriot25
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Elon is doing that though. To me people's issue with Elon is rooted in envy not some moral failure of Elon.


Bingo! Many are guilty of the sin of envy. Hypocrites.
Quo Vadis?
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Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

So we are just supposed to hope and trust the most economically powerful man in the world is just, kind, and benevolent?


In a free-market economy a person is free to become insanely rich and what they do with their money is nobody's business, particularly corrupt, useless, government, bureaucrats. People who are FREE to innovate and get rich drive innovation, economic growth, and generally pay a LOT in taxes.
The Pope is economically illiterate and unwise. "Vicar of Christ". Riiiiight.



Why isn't it anyone's business what they do with their money?



How is it my business what you do with your money?


Child prostitutes, human slavery, murder for hire, etc etc? You'd stand by and watch while someone paid for sex from a child?
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
That's an interesting mental gymnastics routine to justify it.

Just because a state or government sanctions a sin doesn't make it not a sin. Let's take something like ohh I don't know abortion… it's still a sin to abort babies. If you vote to take peoples wealth away based on arbitrary they have more than you benchmarks it's still stealing. You're just deceiving yourself it's something else.
Patriot25
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Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible


It sounds like you're a socialist and believe that elected officials should confiscate the fruits of one's production and then redistribute those fruits to the unfruitful. Correct?
The Marksman
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AG
It's frankly absurd how many people think it's their business how much money others have or what they do with it
Patriot25
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Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

So we are just supposed to hope and trust the most economically powerful man in the world is just, kind, and benevolent?


In a free-market economy a person is free to become insanely rich and what they do with their money is nobody's business, particularly corrupt, useless, government, bureaucrats. People who are FREE to innovate and get rich drive innovation, economic growth, and generally pay a LOT in taxes.
The Pope is economically illiterate and unwise. "Vicar of Christ". Riiiiight.



Why isn't it anyone's business what they do with their money?



How is it my business what you do with your money?


Child prostitutes, human slavery, murder for hire, etc etc? You'd stand by and watch while someone paid for sex from a child?


That's an extraordinary leap.

In a free society people are FREE to spend their money as they please within, of course, the framework of the law, which should have gone without saying.



Patriot25
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Yukon Cornelius said:

It is theft. You can create any justifications you want but you are arbitrarily advocating for taking away someone's property because they have more of it than others.

We should be more concerned with Gods perspective not our own from positions of envy. Those with more will have to give an account to God for how they steward it.

There will always be people with more than you and those less than you. Do you consider yourself so righteous you know where the arbitrary lines of wealth lay that justify taking away?


Very well said.
Quo Vadis?
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Yukon Cornelius said:

That's an interesting mental gymnastics routine to justify it.

Just because a state or government sanctions a sin doesn't make it not a sin. Let's take something like ohh I don't know abortion… it's still a sin to abort babies. If you vote to take peoples wealth away based on arbitrary they have more than you benchmarks it's still stealing. You're just deceiving yourself it's something else.


It's not a sin, Christ himself says "give to Caesar what is Caesar's" he never condones the murder of babies in utero.

The government isnt the arbiter of what is good or bad, but just like with marriage, it's fine for them to sanction actual marriage, between a man and a woman, but they cannot rewrite natural law and say that two men can get married.

Quo Vadis?
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Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

So we are just supposed to hope and trust the most economically powerful man in the world is just, kind, and benevolent?


In a free-market economy a person is free to become insanely rich and what they do with their money is nobody's business, particularly corrupt, useless, government, bureaucrats. People who are FREE to innovate and get rich drive innovation, economic growth, and generally pay a LOT in taxes.
The Pope is economically illiterate and unwise. "Vicar of Christ". Riiiiight.



Why isn't it anyone's business what they do with their money?



How is it my business what you do with your money?


Child prostitutes, human slavery, murder for hire, etc etc? You'd stand by and watch while someone paid for sex from a child?


That's an extraordinary leap.

In a free society people are FREE to spend their money as they please within, of course, the framework of the law, which should have gone without saying.






Why is it their business what they do with their money?
Quo Vadis?
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Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible


It sounds like you're a socialist and believe that elected officials should confiscate the fruits of one's production and then redistribute those fruits to the unfruitful. Correct?


The officials don't need to be elected; I'd be fine with a king or dictator doing it; as was the rule for all of western civilization until about 250 years ago.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

That's an interesting mental gymnastics routine to justify it.

Just because a state or government sanctions a sin doesn't make it not a sin. Let's take something like ohh I don't know abortion… it's still a sin to abort babies. If you vote to take peoples wealth away based on arbitrary they have more than you benchmarks it's still stealing. You're just deceiving yourself it's something else.


It's not a sin, Christ himself says "give to Caesar what is Caesar's" he never condones the murder of babies in utero.

The government isnt the arbiter of what is good or bad, but just like with marriage, it's fine for them to sanction actual marriage, between a man and a woman, but they cannot rewrite natural law and say that two men can get married.





I didn't say taxation is theft. I said having arbitrary thresholds of wealth that you or anyone else deem "too much" and then they have their property taken away is theft.
Quo Vadis?
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

That's an interesting mental gymnastics routine to justify it.

Just because a state or government sanctions a sin doesn't make it not a sin. Let's take something like ohh I don't know abortion… it's still a sin to abort babies. If you vote to take peoples wealth away based on arbitrary they have more than you benchmarks it's still stealing. You're just deceiving yourself it's something else.


It's not a sin, Christ himself says "give to Caesar what is Caesar's" he never condones the murder of babies in utero.

The government isnt the arbiter of what is good or bad, but just like with marriage, it's fine for them to sanction actual marriage, between a man and a woman, but they cannot rewrite natural law and say that two men can get married.





I didn't say taxation is theft. I said having arbitrary thresholds of wealth that you or anyone else deem "too much" and then they have their property taken away is theft.


What rate of taxation isn't arbitrary? Aren't they all arbitrary? You're saying it's okay to take people's property away as long as everyone has the same percentage of property taken away?
Patriot25
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Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible


It sounds like you're a socialist and believe that elected officials should confiscate the fruits of one's production and then redistribute those fruits to the unfruitful. Correct?


The officials don't need to be elected; I'd be fine with a king or dictator doing it; as was the rule for all of western civilization until about 250 years ago.


I appreciate your honesty.

Do you believe in Jesus?
Quo Vadis?
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Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible


It sounds like you're a socialist and believe that elected officials should confiscate the fruits of one's production and then redistribute those fruits to the unfruitful. Correct?


The officials don't need to be elected; I'd be fine with a king or dictator doing it; as was the rule for all of western civilization until about 250 years ago.


I appreciate your honesty.

Do you believe in Jesus?



Yes. Do you?
Patriot25
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Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible


It sounds like you're a socialist and believe that elected officials should confiscate the fruits of one's production and then redistribute those fruits to the unfruitful. Correct?


The officials don't need to be elected; I'd be fine with a king or dictator doing it; as was the rule for all of western civilization until about 250 years ago.


I appreciate your honesty.

Do you believe in Jesus?



Yes. Do you?


Yes, and I strive daily to follow his commandments.
Quo Vadis?
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Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Patriot25 said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible


It sounds like you're a socialist and believe that elected officials should confiscate the fruits of one's production and then redistribute those fruits to the unfruitful. Correct?


The officials don't need to be elected; I'd be fine with a king or dictator doing it; as was the rule for all of western civilization until about 250 years ago.


I appreciate your honesty.

Do you believe in Jesus?



Yes. Do you?


Yes, and I strive daily to follow his commandments.


Great
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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AG
How many dollars can I have before being considered evil?
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Patriot25
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None.
Quo Vadis?
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Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:

How many dollars can I have before being considered evil?


$Texas
AggieVictor10
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AG
He's earned it.
Aggrad08
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AG
It's perfectly reasonable to say there doesn't exist a simple answer of how much wealth or even how much relative wealth makes you greedy. But I dismiss the subtle implication, if that is indeed what you are doing, that greed or excessive wealth cannot exist.

I could similarly say how many beers must one drink in a week before they are a drunkard or alcoholic. I don't think I could name a number there any more with wealth. But we all know an unhealthy relationship to alcohol when we see it. And we can all see when such a relationship has negative effects on an individual or society.

I'm not envious of extreme wealth for the most part. If I had stupid money id give most of it away. If I had a company whose stock was worth extreme amounts on paper I probably would not give away control, but I'd likely pay out much more profit to employees. I can say this based on my own business which does much better than most but is many zeros away from some of these guys.

Even from a biblical perspective the Bible doesn't seem to mince words in texts like James 5. If those verses were about gay folks or something I think they would be much more repeated.

Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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AG
I think Galatians 5 19-21 does a good enough job.

With wealth it is a tough one.

Not so with sexual immorality. A little adultery is still adultery. We can't argue that. How much is too much money and when does that make one a sinner?

A little premarital sex is still sexual immorality.

Notice what I don't mention?
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Martin Q. Blank
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Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible

The government is the least efficient way to distribute wealth. If that's your goal. Every country that tries it, the rich/poor gap widens.
Quo Vadis?
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible

The government is the least efficient way to distribute wealth. If that's your goal. Every country that tries it, the rich/poor gap widens.


Yes, much better if people do it themselves voluntarily. As I said, in order to give away a billion dollars, you have to be a billionaire.

Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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AG
Is there no value in the jobs that he creates?

Also I thought this post would be like the bat signal to InfinityAg... His hatred of "CEOs" is kinda scary.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Martin Q. Blank
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Quo Vadis? said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible

The government is the least efficient way to distribute wealth. If that's your goal. Every country that tries it, the rich/poor gap widens.


Yes, much better if people do it themselves voluntarily. As I said, in order to give away a billion dollars, you have to be a billionaire.


Yes, voluntarily the person can vet if the money is going to a good cause and if the person is in need. The government, particularly the federal government, has far less capability to do that. Most of the redistribution goes to lazy people, and it perpetuates their laziness.

And "billionaire" does not mean he has a checking account with a billion dollars in it. For a redistribution of wealth to occur, you'd have to force him to sell investments taking that capital out of other businesses and the economy.
Quo Vadis?
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

Do you propose we steal from them to make them less wealthy?


I don't think it's theft, a progressive tax system makes sense; the point of a society is to facilitate man's passage to heaven, not to ensure he keeps as much of his money as possible

The government is the least efficient way to distribute wealth. If that's your goal. Every country that tries it, the rich/poor gap widens.


Yes, much better if people do it themselves voluntarily. As I said, in order to give away a billion dollars, you have to be a billionaire.


Yes, voluntarily the person can vet if the money is going to a good cause and if the person is in need. The government, particularly the federal government, has far less capability to do that. Most of the redistribution goes to lazy people, and it perpetuates their laziness.

And "billionaire" does not mean he has a checking account with a billion dollars in it. For a redistribution of wealth to occur, you'd have to force him to sell investments taking that capital out of other businesses and the economy.


Yes I understand. My point is that if you're going to give away a lot of money, you have to had made a lot of money first. So making money is not evil, in and of itself.
Quo Vadis?
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Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:

Is there no value in the jobs that he creates?

Also I thought this post would be like the bat signal to InfinityAg... His hatred of "CEOs" is kinda scary.


Au contraire, I think one of the best things that a CEO can do, even better than charity is paying his employees more than market rate, and excessively tipping those he comes in contact with. It's charity but it gives the person their dignity.
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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AG
Where are these noble, kind and loving "poor people" everyone is so worried about? I just don't see it. That may come across as really harsh but I have seen too much to just give anyone a pass. I don't despise them anymore or less than anyone else. I won't give a pass to the kid in Mexico selling chicles. They will swipe your wallet if you are not careful.

Human nature is so depraved with sin that even the poor are stained with it.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
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