It is apparent that the full court press is not having the same effect on our opponents as it did earlier in the year. We are not turning teams over as much.

I know that part of the design is to wear our opponent down over the course of a 40 minute game.

However, I am starting to think that by pressing non-stop, it is wearing our guys down. Take a look at our jump shots. The Aggies are missing open shots that they normally would make. The legs are heavy and they are not getting lift on their jumpers. I have to believe that the press may be taking away the legs on the offensive end, hampering our scoring ability.

I wonder if Bucky may consider backing off and running more half-court defense and just putting in the full court press a few times during the game to change it up.

Yah it backfired against us in the florida game. We gave them like 10 easy dunks by pressing

Was it really the pressing or was it firing up threes because it was the only chance we had at getting back in the game ? Press isn't as effective when the opponent isn't inbounding the ball.

Yeah, he's not going to stop. In fact, if he did, to me that would be a sign of him giving up on what he believes in, and that would be an awful thing for our program. That's not why we hired him.

The only thing I'd like to see is a little less of the full-team trapping press off made baskets. We don't have the athletes across the board to stay in front of the basketball, and too many times we end up with a bunch of guys trailing 70 feet from the basket and nobody back and able to stop the basketball.

If we did more of a "token press" with a guard or two, that would still slow down the offensive sets but also give our other 3 guys (the bigger, slower guys) a chance to get back and stop the basketball.

Too often we've seen Clemence or Agee trying to trap and then defend the full court, and they get blown by and we are disorganized allow easy layups.

That's going to happen regardless, but when we aren't shooting it well, we need to get stops. Feels like instead we double down on the full press, trying to get TOs, but instead give up even more easy baskets.

Case study in changing philosophy in Austin during the Shaka Smart era. Felt he couldn't run the havoc style that got him the job after the final four run. I believe it even became a recruiting issue with the idea that the 4-5 stars wouldn't want to play that way. Ultimately led to a forgettable few seasons where few in his program were happy.

Maybe not change style... But I'd like to see more zone pressing. Bucky isn't afraid to zone in the half court. I'd like to see the same at times with the press. The zone would usually be more of a token pressure.. but keeps em guessing what they are facing and burn shot clock.

TjgtAg08 said:

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If we did more of a "token press" with a guard or two, that would still slow down the offensive sets but also give our other 3 guys (the bigger, slower guys) a chance to get back and stop the basketball.

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But even doing this is completely contradictory to why you make a hire like Bucky.

I think people need to be patient. Most going in to the season thought we'd be way worse than we are precisely because we don't have the athletes yet. I personally thought we would be about where we are now for the whole seasons - 17-18 wins and 6-8 SEC wins. Bucky is going to exceed that in year 1 and hopefully just bring in even better players in seasons to come.

ATM9000 said:

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TjgtAg08 said:

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If we did more of a "token press" with a guard or two, that would still slow down the offensive sets but also give our other 3 guys (the bigger, slower guys) a chance to get back and stop the basketball.

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But even doing this is completely contradictory to why you make a hire like Bucky.

I think people need to be patient. Most going in to the season thought we'd be way worse than we are precisely because we don't have the athletes yet. I personally thought we would be about where we are now for the whole seasons - 17-18 wins and 6-8 SEC wins. Bucky is going to exceed that in year 1 and hopefully just bring in even better players in seasons to come.

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I disagree with the "contradictory" part, but agree with your comment about being patient.

Bucky has always had multiple different press looks, designs, alignments and personnel groupings. Off a made basket, we don't always full-on press the inbounder and full-court trap the entire length back court. We do a lot, but not always. I just think during the stretches when we are getting beat defensively and can't keep the ball in front of us, running a bit more one-on-one press versus the 4-on-2 or full trap would help get our half-court defense set.

Multiple times in the last few games (except maybe against Florida), we've hit a big basket to either cut into the lead or extend our own lead and instead of getting set to get a stop, we hammered the full-court press (I assume to try to get a turnover) and instead got completely beat/couldn't stop the basketball and gave up an easy layup on the other end.

I hate that I'm saying this, but it feels like we haven't had a good sense of time, score and momentum recently at a couple key moments. Its not about abandoning principles, just not being full risk/reward the entire time.

TjgtAg08 said:

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ATM9000 said:

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TjgtAg08 said:

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If we did more of a "token press" with a guard or two, that would still slow down the offensive sets but also give our other 3 guys (the bigger, slower guys) a chance to get back and stop the basketball.

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But even doing this is completely contradictory to why you make a hire like Bucky.

I think people need to be patient. Most going in to the season thought we'd be way worse than we are precisely because we don't have the athletes yet. I personally thought we would be about where we are now for the whole seasons - 17-18 wins and 6-8 SEC wins. Bucky is going to exceed that in year 1 and hopefully just bring in even better players in seasons to come.

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I disagree with the "contradictory" part, but agree with your comment about being patient.

Bucky has always had multiple different press looks, designs, alignments and personnel groupings. Off a made basket, we don't always full-on press the inbounder and full-court trap the entire length back court. We do a lot, but not always. I just think during the stretches when we are getting beat defensively and can't keep the ball in front of us, running a bit more one-on-one press versus the 4-on-2 or full trap would help get our half-court defense set.

Multiple times in the last few games (except maybe against Florida), we've hit a big basket to either cut into the lead or extend our own lead and instead of getting set to get a stop, we hammered the full-court press (I assume to try to get a turnover) and instead got completely beat/couldn't stop the basketball and gave up an easy layup on the other end.

I hate that I'm saying this, but it feels like we haven't had a good sense of time, score and momentum recently at a couple key moments. Its not about abandoning principles, just not being full risk/reward the entire time.

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It's contradictory because the point isn't to just to slow down the opponent getting into their offense, it's to pressure all 5 players on the opponents side. Token 1-2 guard presses dont don't do that.

The biggest issue this team (and coaching staff) has had is how poorly we play in the last minute of contested games.

Our contested final minutes: @SMU, LSU, @Aub, OU, @UT, @tu, @Bama, Mizzou.

The only one of those that we were really solid was OU.

It's unconscionable to have been up 4 with the ball at @SMU w 0:50 left, cough up an early shot clock turnover to start the train wreck that sent the game to OT (where we didn't compete).

With 0:04 left, up 4 after making a FT vs LSU we somehow gave them a chance to shoot (and thankfully miss) a would be game tying 3.

If not for a miraculous overturn of a buzzer call we lose at Auburn after being up 8 in the final minute.

At UT up one we got not one but two turnovers… but turn the ball back over to them (without getting a shot off) one, then miss one/make one FT on the other, then fail twice to get defensive rebounds off of UT free throws… after fouling them twice… lucky to get to OT where we lost in 2OT.

At tu we went from being up 10 and getting defensive rebound w 1:48 left to rushing a shot 3 seconds later, fouling them with 1:44, and starting a chain of events leading to having to sweat out Jacari Lane free throws up 3 with 0:07 left.

At Bama, up 1 w 1:18 left we fail to corral a defensive rebound, and get outscored 6-2 from there.

Vs Mizzou, we get a defensive rebound up 1 with 1:04 left, have a possession consisting one player dribbling at the top of the key with no movement until he jacks up and misses a 28 foot trey w 0:43 left. Mizzou calls a timeout w 0:25 left and executes a play for freaking alley oop dunk in 7 seconds… we don't call time out, miss a 31 foot shot w 0:08 left get the rebound and call a timeout w :04 left, and inbound to Agee for a play that never had a chance.

In every single game that we have been tied or have trailed by even one point in the final 2 minutes we have lost.

Our style of free flow, unscripted, play off of each other offense simply does not stand up to the pressure of nut-cuttin' time. Our young HC is learning that the hard way. There comes a point where you HAVE to be able to call sets and execute them to win games.

I think you're grouping a lot of things together that have different explanations

- Bucky can't make clutch free throws for our guys which was a problem in some of those games.

- We have exactly one player who can semi create his own shot at the basket AND hit a jumper if the defense backs off, we tried him in the SMU, Tennessee and other games and he's the one that committed the catastrophic turnovers. I don't know what kind of set play you expect us to dial up with that limitation.

- The guy that's probably our best perimeter player did get good looks against Mizzou and Alabama and missed them

- we tried letting Agee attack the basket against Mizzou and that didn't work either

I'm not saying our end of game execution is brilliant, but it's not like we've just tried the same thing over and over and failed every time. We've tried several different things.

But that's our biggest weakness in these spots is we don't have a guy that we can iso or run a high pick and roll or something and just know they're either going to get a decent look or that the defense will have to overplay and get someone else open for an easy look.

Then this isn't an NCAAT team.

It's not some coincidence that we've limped home in the final minute in almost every contested game we've played.

For such a guard-heavy team, it is just stunning that we do not have the ability to execute when it really matters time after time after time.

I mean that's what this team is, better than its individual parts. But the lack of high level individual players shows up at the ends of games. And yet if Isaacs and Lane make free throws and don't turn the ball over late we'd be easily in the field.

But the roster is what it is. Our best driving scorer is our worst three point and free throw shooter, our only decent post man is 6-6, I think we've actually done a decent job of getting Griffin some looks late but he just hasn't hit them.

But find a way to win a few more and this team IS a tournament team.

Are we tired?

I can see why people think that but I'm not convinced, we'll find out this week. I think certain players are more frustrated than tired.

Yeah, tired of losing!

But seriously, we've exceeded expectations and I like what I'm seeing overall.

Adam87inSA said:

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Then this isn't an NCAAT team.

It's not some coincidence that we've limped home in the final minute in almost every contested game we've played.

For such a guard-heavy team, it is just stunning that we do not have the ability to execute when it really matters time after time after time.

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huh

bhlozek said:

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It is apparent that the full court press is not having the same effect on our opponents as it did earlier in the year. We are not turning teams over as much.

I know that part of the design is to wear our opponent down over the course of a 40 minute game.

However, I am starting to think that by pressing non-stop, it is wearing our guys down. Take a look at our jump shots. The Aggies are missing open shots that they normally would make. The legs are heavy and they are not getting lift on their jumpers. I have to believe that the press may be taking away the legs on the offensive end, hampering our scoring ability.

I wonder if Bucky may consider backing off and running more half-court defense and just putting in the full court press a few times during the game to change it up.

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How many wives have you traded in due to a disagreement or had a rough patch in life?

We've already performed above expectations. We're basically a squad of midgets trying to look over the trees while walking through a forest. As Bucky has said, we'll be giving up some easy dunks; however, once Bucky gets a year or two to recruit both high school and portal then let's revisit this conversation.

I think you'll have guys wanting to come play here out of the portal especially with this type of play as you can get out and hustle your ar$$ off, be able to shoot without much of a conscience (i.e., meaning when you shoot you miss--shoot through your slump), knowing you will get the opportunity to score your points as long as you're productive, and play winning basketball.

Our team plays this hard EVERY game. Our opponents likely have not played this hard EVERY game. Consequently the opponents very well may have fresher legs. The only way to combat that fresh leg differential is to play many players.

eATMup-Reveille said:

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Our team plays this hard EVERY game. Our opponents likely have not played this hard EVERY game. Consequently the opponents very well may have fresher legs. The only way to combat that fresh leg differential is to play many players.

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I just don't buy this very much. This isn't like playing two football games in a week or something. I think by the time we play our next game both us and our opponents are on even footing.

If there's a fatigue factor, it's only in the flow of that game, and even that isn't always a factor.

The other thing about the "tired" argument is that our coaching staff would know if that's the case and would give our guys some extra rest. They have the data now both in games and practices. Players' speed, shooting angles, shot velocity, etc is all tracked now.

If there was a legitimate fall off in players because of building fatigue, the coaches would be able to see it in the data.

You are starting to see the difference between playing middle to bottom teams in the league vs the top teams in the league.

The silver lining is that we're a few buckets away, a few possessions away, a few free throws away from at least being 9-3 in the league and in the drivers seat for the tournament.

GrayMatter said:

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You are starting to see the difference between playing middle to bottom teams in the league vs the top teams in the league.

The silver lining is that we're a few buckets away, a few possessions away, a few free throws away from at least being 9-3 in the league and in the drivers seat for the tournament.

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This. The fact that we've already reached a threshold where we will close the season somewhat respectable in SEC play no matter what is quite a feat given where Bucky was starting from.

Let the system play out for a few years. It's why you hire a coach like Bucky… build a program around a specific style of play and win that way… not just to go be another run of the mill program.

bobinator said:

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I mean that's what this team is, better than its individual parts. But the lack of high level individual players shows up at the ends of games. And yet if Isaacs and Lane make free throws and don't turn the ball over late we'd be easily in the field.

But the roster is what it is. Our best driving scorer is our worst three point and free throw shooter, our only decent post man is 6-6, I think we've actually done a decent job of getting Griffin some looks late but he just hasn't hit them.

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I think this is generally an accurate observation, but I think it points out a less obvious fact about our lack of late game execution. We are what we are, so it's no surprise that looking to finish games with isolation, or playing through specific players would fail more often than not.

I think we've struggled, in part, because we are getting away from what makes us an effective team in the late game situations. Instead of looking to isolate or run through a designated player, I would like to see us execute our full motion flow offense. Go ahead and be who we are, move the ball, find an open man and let that guy take the shot whichever of the five guys on the court gets the good look.

Now, late game, final shot, we're not going to stick Federiko on the court. We're going to put our 5 best offensive guys in the game. Let them create doing it the way we do it and live with the consequences.

I think that's more or less what we've settled into doing. It's why we didn't call a timeout after Mizzou's basket.

There's a reason 99% of the other basketball programs DONT run a full court press most of the time.

I'm just surprised that all our last play vs Missouri consisted of Agee trying to go one on one against the tall trees. That's probably the one time that I came away with scratching my head thinking this is the best play we can run in that situation?!

I'm willing to concede if this was by design to see if it would work, but MIzz coach in press conference admitted that they knew it was coming.

I think in that situation, I would have preferred Hill working his way to the bucket hoping they leave Rylen or someone else open for a 3 for Option A, Option B to take a shot, Option C to take a shot and have Agee try to fight his way for an offensive rebound tip in.

Actually, they did leave Rylan open at the point for an open look.

Agee was just committed at that point to forcing the ball to the rim.

The kick-out was a straight forward pass if Agee's head was up.

That's the point I was making above. I think we have to be ourselves in those late game situations mentally. When our offense is flowing, Agee finds that open look and we either make or miss, but I like our chances. When we get into the late game situation, we too often become stagnant and dependent on Agee or Hill to create a shot.

That was the previous play when Lane penetrated to the paint and then kicked it out to Rylen for an open 3 that he missed.

I had to go and see the video to see it all again to see our last 2 possessions.

Actually Agee did have the option to pass the ball when he got to the block. He spun around and a 2nd Mizzou player swiped and got air when he took that weird back to the basket layin that was blocked.

At the point when he made the spin move, Missouri had 2 defenders playing 3 guys. Jacari was wide open for a 3 but Agee missed him probably thinking he didn't have time left for a kickout and shot.

Also, someone want to explain (1:01 in the vid, 23.3 left in the game, we're on defense) why Rylen was trying to smother the Mizzou player from the front side rather than play behind him? You play with your back facing the basket and have a chance to see the play unfold but with his back towards the action, he's in a spot where he can't see anything. Plus, if you're playing behind and can see the play unfold, at the very least he can push the player and bump both the screener and the guy receiving the ball.