Absolutely

We need Darby to put some strength on him

bobinator said:

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I don't think he's particularly athletic, but I also think he's playing the right amount of minutes until he proves in a bigger game that he can protect the paint and rebound. Agee needs to take Vinson to DAWG school or something because the tools are all there, in fact he's WAY more skilled than I expected, but he's been incredibly soft when he's up against bigs with any kind of quality and we haven't even seen very many yet.

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I'm always confused about what is athletic for a college athlete. As board guys, what is our definition of athletic? Players have so many different styles to be effective and help their teams in every sport. A rabbit is more nimble than a giraffe, so if I see a giraffe hopping, that's remarkable to me. I've always wondered, what does it mean? Yes, more athletic than us, but beyond that what do we mean when we say athletic, for a college athlete?

Reminds me of Charles Barkley

Most people just mean how fast and bouncy are guys for their height when they talk about basketball athleticism. I've argued before that strength should be considered part of athleticism, which is why I'd say Agee is more athletic than people think (for a historical reference, I argued a lot against people who said Henry Coleman wasn't athletic. He wasn't bouncy, but he was strong as hell down there which let him guard players taller than he was and rebound better than his height.)

Vinson isn't particularly un-athletic either, he's not like some kind of stiff out there. (Which Mgbako kind of is right now, which is a conversation for another thread). But he's not like especially bouncy (like say a Robert Williams or DeAndre Jordan), nor is he particularly strong (like a Josh Nebo or Joseph Jones.)

Vinson is further along and better than I expected . I expected a total project but I think he's good enough to play an important role . He's craftier than I expected around the bucket but as bob sez he's neither a super strong will imposer nor a super hoppy shot blocker . He does however do enough of everything to be a valuable piece of the team.

We are at midseason. It will be fun to re-listen to the Logan Lee takeaways of the portal additions at the start of Summer. He accurately predicted most of the players potential in this system. Conference play is the next test.

bobinator said:

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he's been incredibly soft when he's up against bigs with any kind of quality and we haven't even seen very many yet.

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I agree he has been softer in the bigger games but at the least I think he and Federiko should play over Clemence. Clemence, if not shooting (which he seems afraid to at times) is nothing special and is weaker than Vinson.

All three bigs can kind of be up and down, but Federiko has more to offer defensively and he has been playing a little better recently than he was earlier

CactusThomas said:

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Reminds me of Charles Barkley

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I can't quite figure out Clemence. Not sure I've ever seen anyone quite like him

That's actually not bad. He's definitely better at handling the ball but I can see it otherwise.

Keep Clemence out of the paint. Outstanding passer. Terrible handles

Clemence does have a trait in common with Hefner too, other than the obvious one, but they both take these big looping arcs to the basket when they drive it.

My thoughts are he didn't play an Kansas and I don't think he'd play more than 5 minutes per game on any other SEC roster, but we kind of have to and if he would just look to shoot more ( Arizona st scrimmage) he'd be better.
He gets blocked by more smaller guards than any big I've ever seen

He was Kansas' Chris Collins- only he didn't have a Buzz in his corner to give him minutes.

If anything he has exceeded expectations. He's had some nice games. I'm not predicting a ton from him in SEC play but we will see.

CactusThomas said:

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He was Kansas' Chris Collins- only he didn't have a Buzz in his corner to give him minutes.

If anything he has exceeded expectations. He's had some nice games. I'm not predicting a ton from him in SEC play but we will see.

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Shelby and Dibba were also their Chris Collinses

Dibba didn't come from Kansas

Yeah I'm sure he wasn't going up against legitimate competition but he wasn't a walk on, riding the bench. He averaged over 17 ppg.

bobinator said:

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Vinson isn't particularly un-athletic either, he's not like some kind of stiff out there. (Which Mgbako kind of is right now, which is a conversation for another thread). But he's not like especially bouncy (like say a Robert Williams or DeAndre Jordan), nor is he particularly strong (like a Josh Nebo or Joseph Jones.)

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He could be a Jalen Jones if he worked on his game more.

Mgbako is getting better; I saw him being a bit more assertive on the offensive end at the beginning of the game. I think with him it's getting his timing and conditioning right.

Eh, he's a lot bigger than Jones. I think Agee is more Jones-ish except he's stronger and pushes people around more. But they both rebound and defend bigger than they actually are. I'm not sure who would be a good comp for Vinson. For a 6-11 guy he has some really rare traits as far as ball skills and his offensive footwork.

He just needs to get in the fight down there. I'm not sure if it's a confidence issue or what but he's just way too passive of a player right now. If this was a video game I'd take away like 25% of both Holloway and Clemence's confidence and give it to Vinson.

bobinator said:

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Dibba didn't come from Kansas

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Oh. Right.