The great Healthcare plan

3,532 Views | 54 Replies | Last: 2 min ago by FIDO*98*
Who?mikejones!
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It would appear trump has released his plan to make Healthcare better. These are the highlights, i suppose. I doubt all this would all get through congress, and it seems to be more a list of wants than an actual policy proposal






Quote:

Stops sending big insurance companies billions in extra taxpayer-funded subsidy payments, instead sending that money directly to eligible Americans to allow them to buy the health insurance of their choice.


This one is interesting and I really like the transparency rules
AJ02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Haven't had time to read it all through. But regarding second bullet point....speaking purely from a selfish standpoint, it has always wound up being more expensive for me out of pocket when a prescription moves to OTC. I realize my OOP doesn't capture the true "full cost", but ultimately I wound up paying much more for that Zyrtec or Flonase when it became OTC.
waitwhat?
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.
" 'People that read with pictures think that it's simply about a mask' - Dana Loesch" - Ban Cow Gas

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." - Dr. Ron Paul

Big Tech IS the empire of lies

TEXIT
TRM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TRM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

Quote:
Stops sending big insurance companies billions in extra taxpayer-funded subsidy payments, instead sending that money directly to eligible Americans to allow them to buy the health insurance of their choice.

This will be ripe for fraud.
Who?mikejones!
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TRM said:

Quote:

Quote:
Stops sending big insurance companies billions in extra taxpayer-funded subsidy payments, instead sending that money directly to eligible Americans to allow them to buy the health insurance of their choice.

This will be ripe for fraud.


More or less than current health care fraud? Would it be easier to control?
ETFan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Quote:
Stops sending big insurance companies billions in extra taxpayer-funded subsidy payments, instead sending that money directly to eligible Americans to allow them to buy the health insurance of their choice.


Subsidies? Interesting.
CDUB98
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.

THIS
TRM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Doubtful. You'd still fill out the application, but the government cuts a check directly to a person to spend on whatever instead of the funds sent directly to the insurer and there'd be no guarantee the person pays premium each month to maintain coverage.
eric76
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
One problem on drug prices is that the manufacturers can combine two inexpensive drugs and charge a great deal for the result.

There's an interesting article at https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/are-you-kidding-me-check-out-price-tags-combination-drugs-n1049276 about high priced drugs that are nothing more than two much, much less expensive generic drugs.

For example,
Quote:

$14,213.99 for a 90-day supply of generic acid reflux medication.

The price of her generic version of Zegerid, which is manufactured by Dr. Reddy's Laboratories, is significantly higher than the sum of the prices of its main ingredients: omeprazole and sodium bicarbonate. When bought separately, the two individual drugs would cost about $34 for her three-month supply with a coupon.

...

In one example from the study, Merck's Fosamax Plus D had a list price of $39.05 per pill, while its generic components, Alendronate (used to prevent and treat certain types of bone loss) and vitamin D3, cost $1.25. And for Bausch Health Companies Inc., the manufacturer of Zegerid, the list price sits at $86.29 per pill, versus 47 cents for omeprazole (generic Prilosec) and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda).


I asked a doctor about this issue something like ten or twenty years ago and he said that he doesn't know what the drugs cost that he prescribes.
KingofHazor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.

This. The only way to fix healthcare is to return market forces to it. The consumer has to be incentivized to shop around for healthcare and healthcare has to cost the consumer something. Health care insurance is not now insurance, but rather covers all healthcare costs. Healthcare insurance should cover only major, catastrophic healthcare losses.

A return to free market principles will see prices plummet and care dramatically improve.

Trump's plan is simply putting band aids on to mask the true problems.
JobSecurity
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
No idea how the MFN could ever work when the prices charged to insurance vs cash are so different and arbitrary
TRM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Exactly. It's become like a car warranty program where you prepay expected expenses, but the car warranty that ends after x years/y miles.

The biggest cost saving driver will be a switch to making catastrophic coverage an ACA-compliant policy (even then that will raise the price of catastrophic coverage policies, but that should be more manageable).
DrEvazanPhD
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Nope nope nope. Get the gov out of healthcare. It's not a human right. Let the market decide.
BigRobSA
How long do you want to ignore this user?
waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.


Word!
Science Denier
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AJ02 said:

Haven't had time to read it all through. But regarding second bullet point....speaking purely from a selfish standpoint, it has always wound up being more expensive for me out of pocket when a prescription moves to OTC. I realize my OOP doesn't capture the true "full cost", but ultimately I wound up paying much more for that Zyrtec or Flonase when it became OTC.

Are you factoring in the cost of the doctor to see you in order to refill the prescription?
aggie93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.

While I agree with you it also sounds like the plan is about reducing governmental interference and putting more power in the hands of the consumer and far more price transparency. It isn't realistic that you can get government completely out of health care and a plan like that would die a quick death. If we can move health care to be driven by consumers choosing their services and insurance with more options and price transparency those are steps in the right direction.

I'd rather have an improvement and moving away from Obamacare which is the road to UHC, that's a good thing.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Agzonfire
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If Trump actually had a magic wand to make healthcare a perfect system, he would be murdered before sundown.
There's too many layers of waste and abuse, with entire industries relying on it to continue for any meaningful change.
Eliminatus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggie93 said:

waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.

While I agree with you it also sounds like the plan is about reducing governmental interference and putting more power in the hands of the consumer and far more price transparency. It isn't realistic that you can get government completely out of health care and a plan like that would die a quick death. If we can move health care to be driven by consumers choosing their services and insurance with more options and price transparency those are steps in the right direction.

I'd rather have an improvement and moving away from Obamacare which is the road to UHC, that's a good thing.


Hard agree. "Get gubment out of healthcare!" Is just a pointless emotion filled sound bite. It's not going to happen and if it ever does, it's not going to be any time soon.

To have actual discussion based on reality something like this is what we are left with. And first glance can't say I find anything to disagree with yet. We also have to acknowledge that if change is going to happen, it is going to be incremental. Which is what this is.
javajaws
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
None of this really sounds like an actual plan - more like a set of bandaids to apply to the current plan(s) we already have.

I would assume Trump realizes the likelihood of an actual overhaul successfully getting done in a couple years is slim to none which is why he isn't proposing one.
AJ02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Science Denier said:

AJ02 said:

Haven't had time to read it all through. But regarding second bullet point....speaking purely from a selfish standpoint, it has always wound up being more expensive for me out of pocket when a prescription moves to OTC. I realize my OOP doesn't capture the true "full cost", but ultimately I wound up paying much more for that Zyrtec or Flonase when it became OTC.

Are you factoring in the cost of the doctor to see you in order to refill the prescription?


Depends on the drug. But for example when Flonase went OTC in 2014:

$25 copay to get prescription to cover a year + $10 for 3 month supply = $65 per year OOP

For OTC version it was about $60 for a 3 month supply = $240 per year OOP.

I remember Flonase, Zyrtec, and Prilosec all resulting in pretty big jumps in out of pocket costs when they became OTC.

Yes, I realize I still paid insurance premiums that I'm not factoring in, but it's not like they decreased my premiums when the drugs were made OTC.
agracer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Just let me buy a catastrophic coverage plan like car insurance and pay cash for everything else and prices will magically drop.
harge57
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
agracer said:

Just let me buy a catastrophic coverage plan like car insurance and pay cash for everything else and prices will magically drop.


Can't blue star this enough.
aggie93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
javajaws said:

None of this really sounds like an actual plan - more like a set of bandaids to apply to the current plan(s) we already have.

I would assume Trump realizes the likelihood of an actual overhaul successfully getting done in a couple years is slim to none which is why he isn't proposing one.

I guess the question is do you want something actually done or do you want an intellectual argument. If he gets half of those proposals it would be a big win. With narrow majorities in both Houses you aren't getting a major overhaul but you might get some of the worst parts improved.

For instance he is going after Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) requirements which are one of the worst parts of Obamacare. Essentially they cap "profit margins" for insurance companies on services but they DON'T cap prices. So the obvious solution for insurance companies and hospitals is to jack up the price so the "margin" stays the same but the profits go up. If you are capped at making 5% on a $100 service just make the service $150 so you get $7.50 instead of $5. You jack up premiums or get subsidies to pay for it and most people don't see what is happening. It literally incentivizes price increases and disincentivizes price decreases because the only thing the government cares about is the margin percentage not the actual cost or actual profit.

It's pure liberal idiocy that combines "good" intentions of stopping the "evil insurance companies from making too much money" while they are laughing their way to the bank. Hospitals make more. Politicians get to brag and rail against capitalism. Of course the costs only rise so the solution from liberals is more of the same without ever addressing the fundamental reason for what things cost and why. Average American is too stupid or naive to understand the game.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
infinity ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.


Not necessarily.

If we remove government, then we become an anarchy and the corporations rule us.
harge57
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
infinity ag said:

waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.


Not necessarily.

If we remove government, then we become an anarchy and the corporations rule us.

LOL. Please point to where any corporations rule us where the core reason they do is not the direct result of government interference. Government interference is typically the reason corporations have the regulations in place to squash competition and "rule" us.
GeorgiAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Just repeal the 13th Amendment as to doctors, nurses and hospital employees. They are now considered slaves.
FatZilla
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AJ02 said:

Science Denier said:

AJ02 said:

Haven't had time to read it all through. But regarding second bullet point....speaking purely from a selfish standpoint, it has always wound up being more expensive for me out of pocket when a prescription moves to OTC. I realize my OOP doesn't capture the true "full cost", but ultimately I wound up paying much more for that Zyrtec or Flonase when it became OTC.

Are you factoring in the cost of the doctor to see you in order to refill the prescription?


Depends on the drug. But for example when Flonase went OTC in 2014:

$25 copay to get prescription to cover a year + $10 for 3 month supply = $65 per year OOP

For OTC version it was about $60 for a 3 month supply = $240 per year OOP.

I remember Flonase, Zyrtec, and Prilosec all resulting in pretty big jumps in out of pocket costs when they became OTC.

Yes, I realize I still paid insurance premiums that I'm not factoring in, but it's not like they decreased my premiums when the drugs were made OTC.


This is where MFN would kick in. Those prescriptions are likely much cheaper oop in other countries while US keeps subsidizing it. That needs to end.
RulesForTheeNotForMe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As someone who went from company sponsored to self-employed insurance in 2025 and now has to settle for crappy insurance plans that my kids PCP's do not even accept while still having to pay $2,400/m for my monthly premiums because one of my children has chronic health issues... I'd like to believe there is a better way to do health insurance vs spending $30k/yr in premiums while still having to spend $6-8k in Out-of-Pocket expenses even with insurance.

I ran the numbers at the end of the year & had I gone the entire year without health insurance and done self-pay for everything. Which included 2 ER visits, 1 Upper & Lower GI scope, tons of PCP visits and a few other items... It would have cost me $~18,000 if I just told them to give me the cash-option. But with insurance, my total spend was $35,500 for the year.... Now 6 years ago, we had a 5-night stay in the Neurology dept for one of my kids, without insurance it would have cost me $38,000 alone... but it billed my Company sponsored insurance $92,000.

Something is wrong with that......

IndividualFreedom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Agree with the govt. get out of the equation stance.

In fact, should Medicare/Caid be pushed to the state level? I am not sure how, but allow the states to decide if they want the burden. Let's see NYC Heisman that even if it gives them control of healthcare.

Not really fair to the states to be handed that burden. The bright side is that if the federal govt. begins to pay the states as they run medicaid/care they would be able to pull the funds when they detect fraud. Obviously the blue states would be the primary fruadsters. Eventually the voters will realize that the states run the programs and the fed is the watch dog. They would vote locally and statewide vote R to keep the fraud out as much as possible in fear of losing it.
aTmAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
There should be NO government involvement at all. Not even the FDA. Virtually every problem caused in healthcare today is directly attributed to it.
schmellba99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
waitwhat? said:

Bad Trump.

The only way to improve healthcare, both quality and price-wise, is to reduce government interference. Not add additional rules and government influence.

And by reduce, you mean "get the government out of it completely since they have no authority to be in it in the first place outside of providing health care to active duty and vets".
RebelE91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have zero faith in this country to change the way healthcare is paid for. There are too many special interests feeding at the current trough: insurance companies, doctors, big pharma, hospitals, etc. Anything that reduces the amount of money going to that industry is going to be fought over ferociously.
No Spin Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RebelE91 said:

I have zero faith in this country to change the way healthcare is paid for. There are too many special interests feeding at the current trough: insurance companies, doctors, big pharma, hospitals, etc. Anything that reduces the amount of money going to that industry is going to be fought over ferociously.


This guy gets it.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
AJ02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
And even IF they were to find a way that people could reasonably afford insurance and it wasn't tied to your job/employer.....anyone actually think employers are going to give massive raises to offset what they no longer have to spend for health insurance? Not likely.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.