I'm guessing there aren't too many billionaires on Texags. Hat tip to you if I'm wrong! Seems like the basic idea behind the Cali tax (add up all yer stuff and gimme 5%) is pretty much the same logic behind our property tax. We only put up with it because the % is relatively small and it's been around forever.

I guess a difference is you can't pick up and take your real estate out of Texas.

All taxes that fund services that do not benefit the individual taxpayer are theft. The only taxes that are not theft is the small portion that fund defense and stuff like that.

The difference:

Cali has an income tax
Cali has property tax
Cali has sales tax

And they still are out of money.

So, the billionaires already pay a wealth tax on their property values and will get double taxed on the value of their property.

Two things can be true. A tax can both increase market churn, and it can be immoral.

If the goal is "best use" then we should be applying an occupancy corrective factor to the property tax. Tons of DINKs living in 5 bedroom homes because they can. Tons of young families packing multiple kids into too few bedrooms. And the trouble: the DINKs can absorb the property tax burden increases far more easily!

(Also, people aren't cogs and a neighborhood with constant turnover isn't one where long term community thrives.)

Wearer of the Ring said:

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I'm guessing there aren't too many billionaires on Texags. Hat tip to you if I'm wrong! Seems like the basic idea behind the Cali tax (add up all yer stuff and gimme 5%) is pretty much the same logic behind our property tax. We only put up with it because the % is relatively small and it's been around forever.

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We put up with it because it's the primary way we fund municipalities and there is no state income tax which would require a high hurdle to implement.

As someone else said, this topic is apples and oranges anyway. The wealth tax in California is on top of existing property, state income, and sales taxes and includes the entirety of people's wealth.

Billionaire in texas with a reasonable house is a GREAT deal.

Catag94 said:

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Texas taxes your real property, not your assets (individuals), but does tax personal property and inventory on businesses.

The Cali wealth tax proposes to tax total net worth.

There is a significant difference in the valuation of what is taxed and in the percentage.

However, the Cali wealth tax is proposed as a One Time only excise tax where the TX property tax is annually.


The idea of taxing stocks, bonds, retirements, cash, and personal assets is absurd to me. Most of those assets are already post taxes. What precisely is the proposed "representation" for this excise tax? I assume it is not leading to a reduction in other taxes paid for their related representations.

At least in Texas' property taxes is how we fund schools and other local services. Texas has no income tax so the property tax is high relative to states with income taxes.

California has, property taxes, Sales Taxes, state income taxes, and now wants 5% of your net worth on top.

This seems difficult to justify.

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You don't consider real property an asset? For many in Texas, it is overwhelmingly the majority of their assets.

By definition, property is an asset. God help those who want to dip their toe into the Net Worth definition debate, of which there is no debate.

There are other places to store and accumulate wealth other than real estate. I am sure everyone knows this. Even Redstone knows this.

fc2112 said:

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Over_ed said:

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Property tax --> everyone pays. Yes, renters end up paying as well.
Billionaire tax, not so much.

What would you replace it with? Sales tax? folks with money still pay more.

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Federal income tax was initially sold as only a tax on the very rich.

All Californians will be paying the wealth tax before too long.

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BuT iT's OnLy A oNe TiMe AsSeSsMeNt!

Wearer of the Ring said:

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I'm guessing there aren't too many billionaires on Texags. Hat tip to you if I'm wrong! Seems like the basic idea behind the Cali tax (add up all yer stuff and gimme 5%) is pretty much the same logic behind our property tax. We only put up with it because the % is relatively small and it's been around forever.

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You conveniently left out Cali income tax which is up to 12.3% for income plus an additional 1% for income more than $1M.

Oh btw, they also have property taxes too.

It's not the billionaires they want. Their total net worth (in USA) adds up to $8 trillion. However, the middle class net worth adds up to $132 trillion. That's what these commie bastages really want. And the next Dem/Commie president will try to implement this robbery into law.

e=mc2 said:

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It's not the billionaires they want. Their total net worth (in USA) adds up to $8 trillion. However, the middle class net worth adds up to $132 trillion. That's what these commie bastages really want. And the next Dem/Commie president will try to implement this robbery into law.

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Of course they will. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this. And I think there was already some deep dive analysis on the proposed legislation that shows they've left the door open to it. Furthermore, some of the leftist groups supporting it have already said they will have to implement it annually in perpetuity because one-time won't be enough.

"I'll take ridiculous analogies for 500, Alex."

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Two things can be true. A tax can both increase market churn, and it can be immoral.

If the goal is "best use" then we should be applying an occupancy corrective factor to the property tax. Tons of DINKs living in 5 bedroom homes because they can. Tons of young families packing multiple kids into too few bedrooms. And the trouble: the DINKs can absorb the property tax burden increases far more easily!

(Also, people aren't cogs and a neighborhood with constant turnover isn't one where long term community thrives.)

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1) I don't think, on the face of it, a property tax is immoral.
2) going from a general property tax to add in an income tax (DINKs make too much money) is too me, quite a leap. :-)

I really don't get the connection, tbh.

We don't tax tangible assets not associated with a business in the same manner as we do RE. Also, we have a **** ton of available shelters on RE through ag exemptions.

property taxes encourages productive property. Ti

It's like the government of California thinks the rich have vaults like Scrooge McDuck where they swim around in stacks of coins. I wonder how many will be folks forced to sell assets to cover their tax bill.

YouBet said:

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Wearer of the Ring said:

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I'm guessing there aren't too many billionaires on Texags. Hat tip to you if I'm wrong! Seems like the basic idea behind the Cali tax (add up all yer stuff and gimme 5%) is pretty much the same logic behind our property tax. We only put up with it because the % is relatively small and it's been around forever.

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We put up with it because it's the primary way we fund municipalities and there is no state income tax which would require a high hurdle to implement.

As someone else said, this topic is apples and oranges anyway. The wealth tax in California is on top of existing property, state income, and sales taxes and includes the entirety of people's wealth.

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This is true within reason, but the last several years of increasing housing prices along with a significant population increase, have resulted in a windfall for the municipalities. It's become their play money. Has anyone done a deep dive into the budgets? Where is the money going?

mandevilleag said:

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YouBet said:

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Wearer of the Ring said:

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I'm guessing there aren't too many billionaires on Texags. Hat tip to you if I'm wrong! Seems like the basic idea behind the Cali tax (add up all yer stuff and gimme 5%) is pretty much the same logic behind our property tax. We only put up with it because the % is relatively small and it's been around forever.

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We put up with it because it's the primary way we fund municipalities and there is no state income tax which would require a high hurdle to implement.

As someone else said, this topic is apples and oranges anyway. The wealth tax in California is on top of existing property, state income, and sales taxes and includes the entirety of people's wealth.

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This is true within reason, but the last several years of increasing housing prices along with a significant population increase, have resulted in a windfall for the municipalities. It's become their play money. Has anyone done a deep dive into the budgets? Where is the money going?

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Also true. I'm just a realist on this. I don't see it changing. Locals and the state are going to get their money one way or the other. Just depends on how you want to pay it.

I can tell you my local tax dollars have been abused and I live in a small community. Before we moved here, our community voted on building a new City Hall. It's an absolute Taj Mahal campus palace for a town of 10K. Utterly absurd and it naturally came in way over budget and is still not open many months after it was scheduled to be. Locals are pissed off about it and if I had lived here I could have told anyone who would listen that this would happen.

Have you ever been to Rockwall, TX? When you are driving into Dallas on I30 right before you get to the bridge over the lake there is a massive government building on your right that loos like something you would see in Austin or Washington DC. A WTF moment of why is that building in Rockwall. That's the kind of reaction I have when I see our City Hall.

Conversely, we voted down a school bond this last election which I can only assume was due to tax payer anger and hangover from the City Hall fiasco.

e=mc2 said:

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It's not the billionaires they want. Their total net worth (in USA) adds up to $8 trillion. However, the middle class net worth adds up to $132 trillion. That's what these commie bastages really want. And the next Dem/Commie president will try to implement this robbery into law.

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Where you getting $132 trillion? I'm seeing about $6trillion for 900 billionairs and about 13.2 trillion for the middle 20%.

The money is in the rest of the top 10% not the middle class. And that's the group rich Enough to get their ass kicked on tax day but not rich enough for major tax avoidance.

mandevilleag said:

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YouBet said:

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Wearer of the Ring said:

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I'm guessing there aren't too many billionaires on Texags. Hat tip to you if I'm wrong! Seems like the basic idea behind the Cali tax (add up all yer stuff and gimme 5%) is pretty much the same logic behind our property tax. We only put up with it because the % is relatively small and it's been around forever.

---

We put up with it because it's the primary way we fund municipalities and there is no state income tax which would require a high hurdle to implement.

As someone else said, this topic is apples and oranges anyway. The wealth tax in California is on top of existing property, state income, and sales taxes and includes the entirety of people's wealth.

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This is true within reason, but the last several years of increasing housing prices along with a significant population increase, have resulted in a windfall for the municipalities. It's become their play money. Has anyone done a deep dive into the budgets? Where is the money going?

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Tell me you don't know how that process works without telling me.

Tax rates are set AFTER all of the assessments are final. Bond obligations can only be taxes at a rate to come that single year bond payments. Municipal/tax entity budgets (M&O budgets) have statutory limitations on annual increases without voter approval. Again the tax rates for these budgets are set AFTER all appraisals are final.

Valuation increases across the board do not windfall the municipality/tax authority coffers.

property tax is a sin. if i own the property it's mine. anything contrary to that is a scam.

AgPrognosticator said:

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Over_ed said:

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Property tax --> everyone pays. Yes, renters end up paying as well.
Billionaire tax, not so much.

What would you replace it with? Sales tax? folks with money still pay more.

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At least a consumption tax is baked into new purchases instead of assets that were purchased 30 years ago.

The property tax is immoral and unethical for that reason. In Texas, you never truly own your house you are always and forever paying a rent to the state. Don't pay? They quite literally evict you and sell your asset.

That, my friend, is BS.

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I'd favor higher sales tax over a property tax for the reason you mentioned, but it's important to also stay grounded in the facts. Once you reach 65 in Texas, you can defer paying your property taxes until death. They take it out of your estate after you die. So the narrative that they will evict old people from their home is false, unless you refuse to take the deferral option and simply don't pay.

Aggrad08 said:

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e=mc2 said:

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It's not the billionaires they want. Their total net worth (in USA) adds up to $8 trillion. However, the middle class net worth adds up to $132 trillion. That's what these commie bastages really want. And the next Dem/Commie president will try to implement this robbery into law.

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Where you getting $132 trillion? I'm seeing about $6trillion for 900 billionairs and about 13.2 trillion for the middle 20%.

The money is in the rest of the top 10% not the middle class. And that's the group rich Enough to get their ass kicked on tax day but not rich enough for major tax avoidance.

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I saw it on a panel last night. It was the total net worth of the middle class in the US. Perhaps it included small businesses owned as well???

If that's the case, shouldn't the rates be falling after big jumps in property valuations?

Yea I think they were probably using a pretty loose definition of middle on that.