txags92 said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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txags92 said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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Watching Scott Manley's video from earlier...

Big setback for Amazon and their Internet constellation... They have a tightening deadline to get a minimum number of units on orbit or they lose their FCC licenses and will have to rebid those. Minimal spare launch capacity among other commercial providers. SpaceX only has one pad in operation and only one barge in Florida.
F9
Vulcan -- grounded, and potential issues with BE4 Engines now
Arian 6 --always very slow turnaround
AST space Mobile -- also more shopping launches

No other launch vehicle can carry the Mark1 lunar lander and the rover due to both weight and fairing sizes.
HLS lander Moon landing and LEO test for Artemis III

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Falcon Heavy can launch it to TLI, but doesnt have the capability to top off its fuel tank in orbit. But there is some question about whether the top off would be needed since the Falcon Heavy can launch directly to TLI orbit in an expendable core and 2nd stage configuration, while NG would go to orbit then boost to TLI. That delay is supposedly the reason they need to top off.

The other question is how much effort Spacex wants to put into helping launch a competitors vehicle.

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It won't fit inside SpaceX fairings. Therefore it can't fly FH without second stage modifications.

SpaceX will launch for BO. They've done it before. The question is will SpaceX modify a vehicle they're looking to 100% retire.

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Mk 1 lander is 3.08m and FH fairing is 5.2m. It will fit. But not sure they want to modify it to handle the top off if needed.

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Supposedly it is feasible. I dunno.

I'm seeing Blue Moon Mk1 listed as 3.08m diameter and 8m tall. Here that is for standard Falcon 9 / Heavy Fairing.

Falcon Heavy has more performance than New Glenn to LEO and to TLI.

Questions are around structural limits and GSE https://t.co/w87pmramPX pic.twitter.com/EstqPgt9SA

— Ken Kirtland IV (@KenKirtland17) May 29, 2026

I think it's a matter of fuel, not dimensions.

Ah, hydrogen, you are right. That's not gonna go on a FH. And the Falcon launch manifest is going to be as crowded as ever the rest of this year.

Hydrogen...
Since the MK1 is using H2 they have no way of fueling it at a SpaceX pad? That makes sense... Does the lander payload get fueled via or topped off from the launch vehicle tanks? SpaceX doesn't handle hydrogen at the pad for anything.

No way they'd shut down their own launch cadence to add H2 infrastructure. Plus they only have the one pad operational for Falcon at LC39.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Hydrogen...
Since the MK1 is using H2 they have no way of fueling it at a SpaceX pad? That makes sense... Does the lander payload get fueled via or topped off from the launch vehicle tanks? SpaceX doesn't handle hydrogen at the pad for anything.

No way they'd shut down their own launch cadence to add H2 infrastructure. Plus they only have the one pad operational for Falcon at LC39.

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Yeah, like I said initially, the launch capability and geometry are there. It is the fueling and in space topoff that would likely prevent them from using Falcon Heavy.

This whole go to the moon deal always seemed very Frankensteinish to me.

You take a piece, you get a part. It's just not integrated end to end.

Mathguy64 said:

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This whole go to the moon deal always seemed very Frankensteinish to me.

You take a piece, you get a part. It's just not integrated end to end.

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Such is the nature of government contracts. Very political. Wealth is spread throughout various congressional districts.

What are the cross-hatched areas? Acoustic treatments, structural members, etc?

Why is/was BO using hydrogen on the lander when their BE4 is a methane engine? Is their upper stage H2 LOX?

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Why is/was BO using hydrogen on the lander when their BE4 is a methane engine? Is their upper stage H2 LOX?

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Yes. Which is why it looked like a hydrogen bomb went off when the 2nd stage went up.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Why is/was BO using hydrogen on the lander when their BE4 is a methane engine? Is their upper stage H2 LOX?

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Hydrogen provides better specific impulse, meaning less mass:thrust vs. Methalox. The advantage of methelox is that methane could be produced in situ on Mars/moon theoretically but hydrogen...not so much so.

Just my two cents.

nortex97 said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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Why is/was BO using hydrogen on the lander when their BE4 is a methane engine? Is their upper stage H2 LOX?

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Hydrogen provides better specific impulse, meaning less mass:thrust vs. Methalox. The advantage of methelox is that methane could be produced in situ on Mars/moon theoretically but hydrogen...not so much so.

Just my two cents.

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Or BO stole the plans for a Raptor and since that was designed for methalox, they couldn't change it.

Nothing like a good conspiracy.

In a non joking way, we all know that's exactly how the Chinese are doing it.

Bump

PJYoung said:

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Blue Origin alerted the court last week of its impending lawsuit, and requested that the judge order a pause to SpaceX’s contract while the case is adjudicated, according to a person familiar with the notice. https://t.co/Vo7ZCyptEd

— Joey Roulette (@joroulette) August 16, 2021

Blue should be more concerned about the potential ULA sues them if they don't ship some BE-4 flight engines for Vulcan sometime soon. https://t.co/tsqf0BlJ2p

— NSF - NASASpaceflight.com (@NASASpaceflight) August 16, 2021

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I wonder if this is why Blue Origin is so heavily involved in NASA's lunar plans despite taking 25 years to achieve orbit.

That (2021) was roughly 11 years after the TSLA IPO, for context, and the F9 rocket successfully launched a payload and landed only in late 2015 I think.

Pretty good progress https://t.co/Ow1EI0s8Pf

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 31, 2026

Sort of incredible, as we look at the SpaceX IPO upcoming, even given the insane valuation. I bring that up, just as a point of reference that Elon's projects have made a lot of people, not just himself, quite a lot of money.

Another 24 starlinks went up yesterday from California.

I've been entirely unimpressed with the Chicom methelox engines/rockets to date. FFSC they claim to be working on as well but I don't think they have any flight articles yet even. One of their biggest weaknesses is metallurgy imho, which can sound boring but is key to the insane pressures/heat the raptor operates on (and the precise electronic controls that drive the whole thing). I once read how they reverse-engineered the flight control laws/programs of the SU-27 to the shock of the Russians (they made their own version of the plane after the Russians foolishly thought they'd honor a contract to license build/assemble around 80 of them), but it involved repeated tests/guesses of a system that was much simpler.

Anyway, hydrogen is a problem I'm glad SpaceX has avoided. Caution, some NSFW language but a good story anyway, illustrating (to me) why it's just implausible to put the BO lander on top of an FH:

THE WORST PROJECT OF ALL

People always ask me, "Mikey, what's the worst project you've ever had to work on?" and I always answer, I'm glad you asked that question.

Good news: my company got the NASA contract to provide liquid hydrogen ("LH2") to fuel the Space Shuttle.

So, we… pic.twitter.com/ZAEenRRqbt

— Michael DiMercurio (@MikeyDiMercurio) February 12, 2026

Holy moly. Thank you for posting that. A good reminder whatever problems I may have are not so bad.

I knew hydrogen was hard to deal with but I had no clue it was that dangerous to handle because of endless leaks that are hard to see or stop

You can detect em, just use a flame….

Starlink is spacex. My price keeps going up and the speeds and connectivity going down. Also, new customers do not have to buy the equipment. Customer service is difficult. It is my only option at one location though.

OnlyForNow said:

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You can detect em, just use a flame….

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Flammable is 50,000 ppm, maybe as low as 40,000 ppm

I just saw a WB-57 flying over my house on the way to Ellington. I wished them happy landings.

I wonder if this is the one that belly flopped on the runway a few months ago or another one.