Performative tradness in NO parishes

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The Banned
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In reply to PabloSerna • 5:42p, 5/13/26
PabloSerna said:
" I don't think you know what the Council actually called for."

Buddy- as we say, them's fighting words!

Let's just say, I have done a far share of studying with a group of professed laity for nearly 30 years. Let's not insult each other like that. We can disagree and civilly discuss the finer points of doctrine, but to say "you don't know?" - is sad.

I didn't mean to insult you with what I typed. You said the GIRM was a Vatican 2 document. Moreover, the GIRM did not call for radical changes like versus populum, massive musical changes, informal liturgical norms, etc. It truly sounded like you don't know what Vatican 2 called for. If you say you have studied it at length, then I'll believe you. Just have no idea how that document was supposed to prove anything.
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The Banned
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In reply to PabloSerna • 5:49p, 5/13/26
PabloSerna said:
"I didn't understand the "smells and bells" accusation."

The danger lies in that we can be so consumed with the pageantry of our liturgy that we neglect the command from Christ to love one another and to our universal call to holiness. None of which requires ad orientem seating, Gregorian chant, or gilded decor.

Is there any data to support parishioners in traditional parishes neglecting the command to love one another or grow in holiness as compared to the run of the mill NO parish?

I cited the stats on mass attendance and belief in the Eucharist earlier. They have done nothing but tank for 60 years. The same holds true for the number of people going to confession at least once a year, those who believe the Catholic church is infallible, those that believe in Catholic teachings on morals. All dropped through the floor.

The one good metric we have in the Church right now is the number of converts is increasing, but the trend there is because these people are discovering Church history and tradition. It's not the average mass around the corner bringing them in.
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swimmerbabe11
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3:54p, 5/14/26
I have no dog in this particular fight (even though lutherans are seeing some of the same)

except to say:

sundresses shouldn't be tight. Just because it is a summer/spring dress, that does not mean it is a sundress.

Thank you for your time and attention.
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PabloSerna
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In reply to The Banned • 7:08p, 5/15/26
AG
My friend, and I do mean that, it is the work of the Holy Spirit and not liturgical revisions drawing people to the Church. To say otherwise is to repeat the feeling the Apostles were feeling when they returned from the mission. Recall what Jesus said to them about Lucifer falling from the sky like lightning.

One of the wonderful things I love about being Catholic is seeing the complete integration of so many cultures. As someone who shares indigenous ancestry with the very people converted because of the work by the early Franciscans, missions, and even apparitions by Our Lady such as on the hill in Tepyac (Aztec capital of Tenochitlan) - I very much appreciate the celebrations during the feast of our lady of Guadalupe.

Again- all the work of the Holy Spirit!
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FTACo88-FDT24dad
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In reply to Faithful Ag • 7:53p, 5/16/26
AG
Faithful Ag said:
I think part of the disconnect you are seeing is that to receive the precious Blood from our knees increases as the chance that something might happen leading to spilling. With a physical altar rail that risk is significantly less, or when receiving both together (intinction).

I am a member at St. Anthony. Personally, I receive the Body from my knees and generally do not receive the Blood because of the "logistics". I agree there has been a significant, positive shift in reverence toward the Eucharist over the past 5+ years, specifically at St. Anthony. Fr. Jesse and Fr. David (Hust) brought patents back several years ago which helped a lot. Fr. David ( a little controversial due to his conservative, traditional views) really called attention to the casualness that the laity were bringing to Mass and the Eucharist. His impact is still being seen and felt even though he's been gone for a couple of years now. I miss Fr. David.

Next time you are at St. Anthony I'd encourage you to visit the Our Lady of Angels Chapel where we have hundreds of relics of Saints including pretty much all of the Apostles and Mary Magdalene, a piece of the veil of the Blessed Mother, and a piece of the True Cross. It's a great place to take a moment for some prayer and reflection.


I was a founding "member" of St Anthony of Padua. We started in a school cafeteria in Oak Ridge and then built that beautiful church. I moved in 2001. Glad to see it is doing well.

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FTACo88-FDT24dad
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In reply to The Banned • 7:59p, 5/16/26
AG
The Banned said:
PabloSerna said:
"I didn't understand the "smells and bells" accusation."

The danger lies in that we can be so consumed with the pageantry of our liturgy that we neglect the command from Christ to love one another and to our universal call to holiness. None of which requires ad orientem seating, Gregorian chant, or gilded decor.

Is there any data to support parishioners in traditional parishes neglecting the command to love one another or grow in holiness as compared to the run of the mill NO parish?

I cited the stats on mass attendance and belief in the Eucharist earlier. They have done nothing but tank for 60 years. The same holds true for the number of people going to confession at least once a year, those who believe the Catholic church is infallible, those that believe in Catholic teachings on morals. All dropped through the floor.

The one good metric we have in the Church right now is the number of converts is increasing, but the trend there is because these people are discovering Church history and tradition. It's not the average mass around the corner bringing them in.


St Faustina in Fulshear/Katy is absolutely exploding in growth. Confession lines are always long and we often have three priests hearing them.

We are building a new church and it is going to be stunning, very much like St Mary's in CS. We have issues like any parish, especially with a tendency towards what I call "hippie Jesus" music, but even that is reverent and well-done. Our priests are excellent and faithful to the teachings of the church as are our deacons. Our lay ministries are booming as well.

I am in training to become a spiritual director and plan to donate my time to my fellow parishioners once I retire and finish my training.

Share all that to say there are bright spots out there.
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94chem
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7:18a, 5/20/26
I was enjoying my local Episcopal church until a few Sundays ago the guy next to me grabbed the cup, took a swig, and handed it back. I just took the wafer and ate it dry rather than dipping it in. Normally, they just hand us the wafer and we dip it. IDK why they don't have a separate line for people who want to mingle their saliva with the blood of Christ. If I became Catholic, would I be required to swap saliva?
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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FTACo88-FDT24dad
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In reply to 94chem • 7:51a, 5/20/26
AG
94chem said:
I was enjoying my local Episcopal church until a few Sundays ago the guy next to me grabbed the cup, took a swig, and handed it back. I just took the wafer and ate it dry rather than dipping it in. Normally, they just hand us the wafer and we dip it. IDK why they don't have a separate line for people who want to mingle their saliva with the blood of Christ. If I became Catholic, would I be required to swap saliva?


Yes. The precious blood is received from a common chalice. But you are not required to consume in both kinds because the Real Presence is fully present in each of the "kinds", bread and wine.
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94chem
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In reply to FTACo88-FDT24dad • 10:34a, 5/20/26
FTACo88-FDT24dad said:
94chem said:
I was enjoying my local Episcopal church until a few Sundays ago the guy next to me grabbed the cup, took a swig, and handed it back. I just took the wafer and ate it dry rather than dipping it in. Normally, they just hand us the wafer and we dip it. IDK why they don't have a separate line for people who want to mingle their saliva with the blood of Christ. If I became Catholic, would I be required to swap saliva?


Yes. The precious blood is received from a common chalice. But you are not required to consume in both kinds because the Real Presence is fully present in each of the "kinds", bread and wine.


Ah, good deal. I mean, separating skin, bones, and blood isn't that easy, especially since the blood is made by the bones. But, isn't it still considered common when I dip the cracker? I mean, I don't see whether it matters if we pick the meat directly off the cow, or if it is sliced into individual steaks first. Same carcass.

When I was in France, only the priest got the wine. This was in the early 90's.

Finally, I don't understand why putting it directly on the tongue matters at all. Do I not have the same Holy Spirit as the priest? Is it not what comes out of a man that defiles him? And is not he who is in me greater than he who is in the world? And do I not share a common priesthood, despite supposed hierarchies?
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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FTACo88-FDT24dad
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In reply to 94chem • 11:00a, 5/20/26
AG
94chem said:
FTACo88-FDT24dad said:
94chem said:
I was enjoying my local Episcopal church until a few Sundays ago the guy next to me grabbed the cup, took a swig, and handed it back. I just took the wafer and ate it dry rather than dipping it in. Normally, they just hand us the wafer and we dip it. IDK why they don't have a separate line for people who want to mingle their saliva with the blood of Christ. If I became Catholic, would I be required to swap saliva?


Yes. The precious blood is received from a common chalice. But you are not required to consume in both kinds because the Real Presence is fully present in each of the "kinds", bread and wine.


Ah, good deal. I mean, separating skin, bones, and blood isn't that easy, especially since the blood is made by the bones. But, isn't it still considered common when I dip the cracker? I mean, I don't see whether it matters if we pick the meat directly off the cow, or if it is sliced into individual steaks first. Same carcass.

When I was in France, only the priest got the wine. This was in the early 90's.

Finally, I don't understand why putting it directly on the tongue matters at all. Do I not have the same Holy Spirit as the priest? Is it not what comes out of a man that defiles him? And is not he who is in me greater than he who is in the world? And do I not share a common priesthood, despite supposed hierarchies?


I will try to respond by sharing the general principles that inform this discussion:

1. Don't confuse the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with the Sacrament of the Eucharist. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the focus of the Eucharistic liturgy where the priest consecrates bread and wine that God changes into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ under the accidents of bread and wine. The priest ALWAYS offers the Holy Sacrifice in both forms: bread and wine and consumes both kinds. Always. What is offered to the faithful is the Real Presence under the accidents of bread and/or wine.

2. Intinction (dipping the bread into the wine) is used in many apostolic churches who profess the Real Presence or their particular version of the Real Presence.

3. The Catholic Church allows reception of the Real Presence in the hands. It also allows it to be received directly on the tongue. The reason some people choose to receive on the tongue is out of respect for the sacred nature of the host, including any residue or fragments that might remain. Those are Jesus's Real Presence and we treat it as such. The same is true for a drop of the Precious Blood. This is why we don't make it available in individual small cups.
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94chem
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In reply to FTACo88-FDT24dad • 5:17p, 5/20/26
Thank you. Yeah, it would just be tough for me to have the priest put something in my mouth after touching every other piehole in the church. Even if you consider that OCD, so what. Aren't germaphobes and OCD-types allowed in the church too? I haven't been back to the Episcopal church since the dude next to me did that. He even greeted me cordially after the service. I just...don't want to.

One of the great failures during Covid that nobody talked about was the 20 - 25% of adults who are terrified of needles. There was a lot of phobia hiding behind "libertarian ideals."
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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