veryfuller said:
Right, he essentially has a super star from every demo in this movie.
Then he should have passed on Leguizamo and found a way to shoehorn Vergara in somewhere
holy giant image pic. I'll try this
*** THE ODYSSEY *** (Christopher Nolan)
137,228 Views |
1354 Replies |
Last: 2 hrs ago by Ol_Ag_02
Then he should have passed on Leguizamo and found a way to shoehorn Vergara in somewhere
holy giant image pic. I'll try this
I would like to propose that there WAS a Greek Odysseus available.
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
888
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
When I say apolitical, what I mean is not that his movies are devoid of politics, nothing is. It's that the movie is neutral on those things and not forcing a point of view. It's letting the characters approach those things, and then leaving it to the audience to chew on rather than spoon feeding or forcing a perspective.
Also, if he has any soap box that he gets on, it's the cinematic experience and making things for large audiences in theaters. So if you can assume any motivation for him, it's that he is doing whatever it takes to achieve that. He isn't trying to pick some political fight or make some political point with any of his movies.
Also, if he has any soap box that he gets on, it's the cinematic experience and making things for large audiences in theaters. So if you can assume any motivation for him, it's that he is doing whatever it takes to achieve that. He isn't trying to pick some political fight or make some political point with any of his movies.
veryfuller said:
When I say apolitical, what I mean is not that his movies are devoid of politics, nothing is.
This seems to be the modern sentiment, but I'd have to disagree. I think many works of art/entertainment are created apolitically. Certainly, the audience may overlay their own political biases in their personal interpretation of the work, but that doesn't make it fundamentally political.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
888
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
We are saying the same thing!
And people are arguing with me on both ends.
Can you "read" his movies politically, yes. The Dark Knight feels very Bush era coded. That doesn't mean it was made with that intention (I would argue that it wasn't). It was just a complex story that had relationship to real world ideas. Same with The Dark Knight Rises.
He is making movies from the point of view of entertainment, often intellectual and visceral, in an era when the masses are seeing things through a political lens. Everyone wants to either be confirmed in their politics or find how they are being manipulated to go against their politics, so they either rage or love a thing based on their political reading. I just don't think thats the way to enjoy movies. And although there are many filmmakers who are trying to SAY something with their films, thats not Nolan. But that doesn't mean he isn't willing to dive into complexity and make you feel/think things that may be opposed to your normal worldview.
And people are arguing with me on both ends.
Can you "read" his movies politically, yes. The Dark Knight feels very Bush era coded. That doesn't mean it was made with that intention (I would argue that it wasn't). It was just a complex story that had relationship to real world ideas. Same with The Dark Knight Rises.
He is making movies from the point of view of entertainment, often intellectual and visceral, in an era when the masses are seeing things through a political lens. Everyone wants to either be confirmed in their politics or find how they are being manipulated to go against their politics, so they either rage or love a thing based on their political reading. I just don't think thats the way to enjoy movies. And although there are many filmmakers who are trying to SAY something with their films, thats not Nolan. But that doesn't mean he isn't willing to dive into complexity and make you feel/think things that may be opposed to your normal worldview.
Many water molecules died to bring us that AI information
Got it. I misunderstood your sentiment and I agree completely with your latest post.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
veryfuller said:
We are saying the same thing!
And people are arguing with me on both ends.
Can you "read" his movies politically, yes. The Dark Knight feels very Bush era coded. That doesn't mean it was made with that intention (I would argue that it wasn't). It was just a complex story that had relationship to real world ideas. Same with The Dark Knight Rises.
He is making movies from the point of view of entertainment, often intellectual and visceral, in an era when the masses are seeing things through a political lens. Everyone wants to either be confirmed in their politics or find how they are being manipulated to go against their politics, so they either rage or love a thing based on their political reading. I just don't think thats the way to enjoy movies. And although there are many filmmakers who are trying to SAY something with their films, thats not Nolan. But that doesn't mean he isn't willing to dive into complexity and make you feel/think things that may be opposed to your normal worldview.
What does this mean? Have seen this stated multiple times now.
Also, yall are making me want to dig up The Sound of Freedom thread. I have no idea what that is but now I want to know.
tk for tu juan said:
Many water molecules died to bring us that AI information
You laugh but the LCRA is going to ruin my lawn again just so some dorks on TA can keep count of an online slap fest.
Patriot Act, Operation Carnivore, domestic spying, etc.
They are arguing that the cellphone thing Batman builds is the movie equivalent of the Patriot Act and therefore it's conservative coded. But they're also ignoring that Batman relinquishes control of it and then has it destroyed.
The argument that his Batman movies are conservative coded comes from a surface level viewing of the movies and completely disregards all the various points in the movies where characters question whether or not these decisions and choices are the right ones. At best the intent is that these movies would make people think about positives and negatives of decisions, but they are certainly not conservative supporting. This argument tends to come from incredibly liberal circlejerks like reddit.
The argument that his Batman movies are conservative coded comes from a surface level viewing of the movies and completely disregards all the various points in the movies where characters question whether or not these decisions and choices are the right ones. At best the intent is that these movies would make people think about positives and negatives of decisions, but they are certainly not conservative supporting. This argument tends to come from incredibly liberal circlejerks like reddit.
Ah, thanks. Guess I've forgotten the particulars of the film. Been a while.
Also, doesn't Batman right now have a fairly omnipotent AI satellite in space that can break into and see pretty much anything happening on Earth? He seems to have gone full Bush Code in the comics last time I read one. Been a while on that too though.
Also, doesn't Batman right now have a fairly omnipotent AI satellite in space that can break into and see pretty much anything happening on Earth? He seems to have gone full Bush Code in the comics last time I read one. Been a while on that too though.
veryfuller said:
Wouldn't it be interesting if her race was addressed in the movie and it added to the storytelling in an interesting way….almost as if Nolan knows how to tell a story…as he has more than proven over the last 26 years. Or maybe the part plays to her strengths as an actress (when she is good she is really good) and he cast her for that reason. You know…to make the movie better…
But I could be wrong. The man, who already has an Oscar, could be so obsessed with winning another that he has compromised the movie he has been wanting to make for 30 years (when he got carte blanc to make whatever he wanted however he wanted) and decided to bow to DEI like he never has before. That makes more sense….
I think it's fine to hate the casting. I think it's silly to layer your own politics onto someone who has proven time and time again to be apolitical in his filmmaking.
Yeah, it'd be special storytelling indeed to say Leda, an aetolian Greek princess married to a spartan king, gave birth to a daughter by Zeus that was black and the spartan didn't leave it to die of exposure, as would be expected since it obviously wasn't his child. I guess we should ignore how antiquity deals with this in Greek art too, knowing there were shrines devoted to her.
It's pretty indefensible by any standard of storytelling.
Fenrir said:
They are arguing that the cellphone thing Batman builds is the movie equivalent of the Patriot Act and therefore it's conservative coded. But they're also ignoring that Batman relinquishes control of it and then has it destroyed.
The argument that his Batman movies are conservative coded comes from a surface level viewing of the movies and completely disregards all the various points in the movies where characters question whether or not these decisions and choices are the right ones. At best the intent is that these movies would make people think about positives and negatives of decisions, but they are certainly not conservative supporting. This argument tends to come from incredibly liberal circlejerks like reddit.
Another example - in The Dark Knight Rises, the people around Catwoman are shown pulling the rich people from their homes and taking what they want. Hardly conservative.
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
888
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
To clarify, I'm not arguing FOR that reading. I just understand the surface level of it. It is addressing many real world ideas that were happening at that time such as terrorism and surveillance. It it explores those things with the characters in a way that is much more nuanced than good v bad, which is one of the reasons it still holds up as a great movie.
Another angle on casting. It seems like a lot of big names in this thing. It kind of smacks of older Hollywood to have so many.
I think too many can get distracting. It can get a bit boring and be, ironically...A Bridge Too Far.
Case in point from my own personal view: Saving Private Ryan. Sure, you can't get a name bigger than Tom Hanks, but after that is was a bunch of unknowns (or at least familiar true character actors). Then....boom....Holy Crap! That's Sam Malone! It clunked.
To my eye, the lack of sTaR PoWeR really helped in Band of Brothers. Somehow, unfamiliar guys being played by also unfamiliar guys seemed like it helped the actual storytelling.
I think too many can get distracting. It can get a bit boring and be, ironically...A Bridge Too Far.
Case in point from my own personal view: Saving Private Ryan. Sure, you can't get a name bigger than Tom Hanks, but after that is was a bunch of unknowns (or at least familiar true character actors). Then....boom....Holy Crap! That's Sam Malone! It clunked.
To my eye, the lack of sTaR PoWeR really helped in Band of Brothers. Somehow, unfamiliar guys being played by also unfamiliar guys seemed like it helped the actual storytelling.
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
888
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
Yeah but that is shown with terror, not like, support. The good guys in the movie are literally the police coming back to take over the city from the anarchists. Again, not saying it SHOULD be read as conservative, there is much more nuance in that film as well, but as a top line, I can understand why people say it reads conservative. To me its just an interesting examination of the multiple competing ideas in a big city and how they can really boil over when push comes to shove, especially when corruption is exposed.
veryfuller said:
Yeah but that is shown with terror, not like, support. The good guys in the movie are literally the police coming back to take over the city from the anarchists. Again, not saying it SHOULD be read as conservative, there is much more nuance in that film as well, but as a top line, I can understand why people say it reads conservative. To me its just an interesting examination of the multiple competing ideas in a big city and how they can really boil over when push comes to shove, especially when corruption is exposed.
I think it's interesting that it's considered conservative for rule of law to try to be re-established after a breakdown of society into complete anarchy. I think that says a lot about the people that consider showing that happening in a film is read as conservative. Again, my experience is that most of these arguments come from liberal echo chambers that view anything right of Bernie Sanders to be a Nazi.
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
888
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
Right, but again thats dealing with the surface and not the themes. Its also putting ones particular political bent on top of the movie. I don't think thats a good way to enjoy movies, but I am probably in the minority on that.
What theme is it that makes the Dark Knight movies "conservative"? I'm pretty confident that any attempt to argue that says more about the person with the viewpoint than the movie itself.
Btw, if you read the book The Nolan Variations he speaks specifically to this argument about the Dark Knight movies and finds it nonsensical.
Btw, if you read the book The Nolan Variations he speaks specifically to this argument about the Dark Knight movies and finds it nonsensical.
Sorry to interrupt the circle jerk. Does anyone have a particular translation that they recommend if I want to read The Odyssey before the movie comes out?
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
888
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
Im not arguing against you man.
I don't think the movies are conservative, I just understand that people viewing it through their political lenses see it that way.
I'm the one saying Nolan is apolitical in his filmmaking and getting raked over the coals for that....
I don't think the movies are conservative, I just understand that people viewing it through their political lenses see it that way.
I'm the one saying Nolan is apolitical in his filmmaking and getting raked over the coals for that....
Fair enough. I do agree that Nolan typically seems to avoid specific viewpoints that usually will be viewed as political and instead tries to focus more on more base level emotions and fears for the themes of his movies.
In response to Maruder:
Fitzgerald's version is the one I read in high school initially. It's more readable than some other translations, but occasionally uses colloquial expressions which feel a bit out of place.
If you are looking for a more scholarly and accurate translation, read Lattimore.
If you prefer a *******ization of the work by a feminist activist, by all means, read WIlson.
Fitzgerald's version is the one I read in high school initially. It's more readable than some other translations, but occasionally uses colloquial expressions which feel a bit out of place.
If you are looking for a more scholarly and accurate translation, read Lattimore.
If you prefer a *******ization of the work by a feminist activist, by all means, read WIlson.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Marauder Blue 6 said:
Sorry to interrupt the circle jerk. Does anyone have a particular translation that they recommend if I want to read The Odyssey before the movie comes out?
The Emily Wilson translation is probably the easiest to read due to the simplicity of her writing, but she does inject her own spin into the writing which irks some.
I enjoyed Richmond Lattimore's translation most though. It's more faithful, but not too daunting.
You may also consider an audio book version. There's one narrated by Ian McKellen that I enjoyed.
There's also one by Stephen Fry, which isn't a direct translation of the book, but a re-imagining of the story and its highly entertaining. It's part of a larger series, but you can listen to it on its own.
Thank you
I read the Robert ***les (first three letters of that last name are a bundle of sticks) translation a decade or so ago and it was pretty solid. my biggest issues with it wasnt translation but just slogging thru Greek religious rites and constant burning sacrifices/drink offerings and stuff at seemingly every stop along away
Last time I read it was in high school and that was a long time ago. I believe it was the Fitzgerald (1961) translation. I do remember really liking it.
Where's Cliff? Where's TC?
Did the mods tell them to take it easy?
Did the mods tell them to take it easy?
Peter Piper said:
Where's Cliff? Where's TC?
Did the mods tell them to take it easy?
Met at the Circle K and killed each other in an orgy of sex and violence.
YouBet said:Peter Piper said:
Where's Cliff? Where's TC?
Did the mods tell them to take it easy?
Met at the Circle K and killed each other in an orgy of sex and violence.
Strange things were afoot.
I looked at The Green Knight thread and I don't see any crying over the race of the actors. Why is this Western myth such a insult to include Westerners of different "races".
7nine
Claude! said:YouBet said:Peter Piper said:
Where's Cliff? Where's TC?
Did the mods tell them to take it easy?
Met at the Circle K and killed each other in an orgy of sex and violence.
Strange things were afoot.
So very strange.
TC was on the UAP thread late last night. Cliff's profile says he hasn't posted since Monday night after 62 of his last 63 posts were about the Odyssey.
Featured Stories
See All
4:00
1d ago
7.6k
Aggies blanked by Auburn in SEC Tournament quarterfinal
by Richard Zane
2027 Dexter (MI) tight end Holden Niemi commits to Texas A&M
by Ryan Brauninger
5:23
1d ago
4.7k
4:35
1d ago
4.3k
In-Home Visit: Aggie dip into Michigan for 2027 TE Holden Niemi
by TexAgs Recruiting
7:14
1d ago
2.6k
Dexter (MI) TE Holden Niemi shares what drew him to Aggieland
by Jason Howell
KingofCorpus
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
5
TPS_Report
Saturday Morning Inspection breaks down Holden Niemi (good)
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
4
I Like Turtles
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
satexas
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
satexas
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
Blackstreet
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
satexas
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
elpaso
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
One-Eyed Fat Man
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
kgtg79
Saturday Morning Inspection breaks down Holden Niemi (good)
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2
jja79
Anyone keeping up with the lead up to the Johnny Football fight?
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2